Anxious Attachment & Open Relationships
In today's episode, I'm sharing some thoughts around anxious attachment & open relationships. While not being my personal experience, this is an area I receive a lot of requests and questions around, as various non-monogamous relationship structures grow in popularity.
In today's episode, I'm sharing some thoughts around anxious attachment & open relationships. While not being my personal experience, this is an area I receive a lot of requests and questions around, as various non-monogamous relationship structures grow in popularity.
We’ll cover:
Common struggles of anxious attachment and how they might show up in an open relationship structure
The importance of having a strong relationship to self when exploring open relationships
Communication, boundaries and self-advocacy
Why you should never agree to open a relationship just to hold onto someone
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Save $150 on my Higher Love break-up course with the code PHOENIX
Follow me on Youtube
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
[00:00:04]:
Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. In today's episode, I'm talking all about anxious attachment and open relationships, which is a topic that I have resisted up until now. Not because I have any position against open relationships or any sort of philosophical take on this issue, but really just because it's not my personal experience and so much of what I share on the show is derived in one form or another from my personal experience. And so a part of me feels ill qualified to speak on this topic. And I should say at the outset that I'm not going to be speaking on the virtues or otherwise of alternative relationship structures other than monogamy.
[00:01:10]:
But really, I'm going to be focusing on the questions that I get a lot of the time from people who identify as anxiously attached and are thinking about entering into some sort of open relationship structure and also speaking. About some of the pitfalls or challenges that you might be likely to encounter as someone with anxious attachment patterns by virtue of the structural elements of those relationships and things to look out for, how you might be able to alleviate some of those stresses or support yourself best through that, if that's your intention. So that's what I'm going to be talking about today. Before I dive into that, a quick announcement. I wanted to let you guys know that I have started a YouTube channel, actually started a YouTube channel about a year ago, but it has had no videos up until now and I have finally bit the bullet, pulled the trigger, and I am uploading quite a lot of videos. I've got a lot of content from the podcast and elsewhere. So if you want to watch the podcast, you'll be able to watch clips of it on YouTube. But I'm also going to be uploading exclusive content there, speaking to various topics and questions on attachment, love relationships, all the same stuff that you get here but in video form for those of you who like YouTube.
[00:02:27]:
So be sure to go check me out. My handle is Stephanie Rigg. You should be able to find me pretty easily, but I would love if you would head over to YouTube and subscribe to my channel and support my videos there. Thanks guys. Okay, so let's talk about open relationships and anxious attachment. So I think on the surface you could see anxious attachment and everything that we know about anxious attachment and then look at open relationships and go, surely that's not going to be a good fit, right? And yet I've had a number of clients as well as heaps of people on instagram who reach out to me asking for advice on this. It is definitely something that's growing in people's awareness, these alternative relationship structures, something that people are more interested to explore than perhaps they would have been historically when most people have defaulted to monogamy. Let's take a step back.
[00:03:20]:
We know that people with anxious attachment patterns struggle with fears around abandonment, fears around unworthiness, fears around rejection, fears around jealousy and comparison. And so we can see that a lot of these things are usually alleviated for anxious people by getting into relationship and staying in relationship and as much as possible, eliminating doubt, uncertainty, establishing some semblance of control and security by holding onto someone pretty tightly. That's what most people do who have anxious attachment patterns. And so on the surface you could look at that and see how it could be really easily exacerbated by open relationships or other structures whereby there isn't the same level of exclusivity, commitment, security as there might be in a monogamous setting. Again, please be very clear, I'm not making value judgments. I'm not saying that there isn't security and there isn't commitment. And I know that depending on the structure, those things can absolutely still be present, albeit in a different form. But I think that something that's really important and I've given this advice to clients before, is if you are really in the thick of anxious attachment, if you are not working with a stable foundation within yourself, if you are experiencing a lot of unworthiness.
[00:04:46]:
If you're experiencing a lot of fear and insecurity, then it's probably not the best time to wade into the waters of more complicated relationship structures. Because I think in most cases it would be fair to say that it does add a layer of complexity, having more people in the mix, having more considerations, more people's needs and dynamics. It is getting more complicated than monogamy. Not to say that it's worse than just different and I would say oftentimes more complicated. And so I think if you haven't mastered you're in a relationship, I e your relationship with yourself and you're in relationship with someone else and that's feeling really insecure, then branching out into non monogamy in whatever form is probably just going to be exacerbating the insecurities that are already present. So I think that as a starting point, it's a good idea to really work on building a level of comfort and security within yourself before thinking about going onto these additional levels of complexity that are likely to bring you even more so into contact with those wounds around unworthiness jealousy, comparison, rejection, abandonment. So I think that's a really important point is do I have the mental and emotional fortitude at the moment to be putting myself in situations where I may very well be quite triggered and feel really insecure? And maybe I don't have the skills or capacity at this time to advocate for myself in the way that would allow me to experience that safely? I think the other thing, and this won't apply to everyone, but I think a really important consideration is oftentimes people who are more anxious will be in relationship with people who are more avoidant. We know that, but there may be some pressure from one person to open up the relationship.
[00:06:46]:
Now, again, I realise there are a lot of caveats in this episode. I told you I was treading carefully. I realise that that's not every situation. Some people from the outset are in open relationships, but equally, I think a lot of people will be in partnership. And then there's pressure from one person to open up the relationship. And if that's a situation that you are in or have been in, I have to caution you to be really careful and make sure that that is what you want as well. Because the very worst thing that you could do, particularly as someone with anxious attachment patterns, is agree to open up a relationship just so you avoid losing someone. And I think that that can happen.
[00:07:28]:
It's certainly happened to people I've worked with. I've received a lot of messages from people who are saying my partner wants to open the relationship and I'm scared to lose them, so I would rather do this than lose them altogether, so I'd rather at least be involved in some way or have transparency and some sort of veto power. And I think that while all of that's really understandable, it is not going to be the solution to your problems. So making sure that if you are thinking about opening up your relationship and you're someone with more anxious attachment patterns or anyone for that matter, anyone who's struggling with unworthiness or frankly, if you're perfectly secure but you feel like there's pressure from someone to open up a relationship when that's not what you want. I think it's really important to tune in and go, is this what I want? Or am I just trying to hold on to someone? Because I think a lot of the time people will just yield to that out of fear and it is very, very rare that is going to ultimately make your situation better. It will almost always make your situation worse because the fear and insecurity that is driving you to say yes to that thing that you don't really want is going to be 100 fold. Once you're opening up your relationship and your partner is seeing other people or whatever other structure it might look like, that is not going to be a good outcome for you. So getting really clear on what your boundaries are, what your limits are, what you actually want and being comfortable, advocating for what you actually want and what you don't want I think is extremely important.
[00:09:00]:
And for folks with more anxious attachment patterns, there's growth in that because that's not the starting point for most of us is not to have real clarity around what we want and what our limits are and then take that additional step of advocating for ourselves in that. That brings me to the last thing that I sort of want to flag, which is if you are wanting to explore open relating as someone with anxious attachment patterns, you're going to want to really work on your communication. And this is true for everyone. Again, it's not my area of expertise, but I think we could all agree that something that people in non monogamous relationships do really well when they do it well is communication. And that's something that a lot of people hold up as being the big growth for them in exploring these alternative relationship structures. Is there's no space to be lazy or complacent around your communication of boundaries and desires and all of those things? I think for those of us in monogamous relationships there's certain default assumptions and expectations that we can get a little lazy about and it allows us to bypass talking about things quite directly. So one of the opportunities and the gifts you could say of these alternative relationship structures is that it really invites you into much more direct and open communication with the personal people that you're going to be in relationship with. And I think that that can be a real area of growth for you as someone with anxious attachment patterns.
[00:10:26]:
But I guess the word of warning or caution is don't shy away from that. I know that talking about things can be really uncomfortable and particularly if there is any insecurity there, not wanting to push someone away, not wanting to voice our fears out of worry that we're going to be seen as needy. All of those things I totally understand. But if you are thinking of exploring open relationships, communication, it's absolutely paramount because there is so much space for misinterpretation. And if you don't have absolute clarity and directness around your respective expectations, what's okay and what's not okay, where the lines are, how it's all going to work, then there's a lot of potential for hurt and misunderstanding and pain. And of course, that's not what we want. So those are a few thoughts on anxious attachment and open relationships. As I said, far from being a comprehensive overview of what is a very big topic.
[00:11:19]:
But I hope that for those of you who are either considering opening up a relationship that you're already in or you're considering exploring open relating as a starting point, that that just gives you a few things to think. About in terms of what it might bring up for you and how best to navigate that in a way that is self responsible and self compassionate. So that if you do make that choice that you're doing it in a way that's likely to be resourced and allowing you to really take care of yourself rather than triggering yourself more deeply into those wounds and those fears and Insecurities that might already be lurking under the surface. As always, super grateful for those of you who leave reviews. If you've enjoyed this episode, if you could leave a five star rating or a review, as I said, do come find me on YouTube. I'm working hard to build up a library of great resources for you there, but otherwise, I look forward to seeing you again next time. Thanks, guys. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment.
[00:12:18]:
If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here, and I hope to see you again sooner.
Attachment Styles & Break-Ups
In today’s episode, we’re talking all about attachment styles and break-ups. While of course, break-ups are messy, personal and far from formulaic, there are undeniably certain themes in how our break-ups feel that can be traced to our attachment patterns.
In today’s episode, we’re talking all about attachment styles and break-ups. While of course, break-ups are messy, personal and far from formulaic, there are undeniably certain themes in how our break-ups feel that can be traced to our attachment patterns.
Understanding the ways in which attachment drives can shape how we relate to and experience break-ups is essential in finding greater compassion for our own experience, and depersonalising someone else’s behaviour to the extent that they’re processing the transition differently to us.
Use the code PHOENIX to save $150 off Higher Love -
stephanierigg.com/higher-love
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my upcoming masterclass on Building Trust
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
Stephanie Rigg [00:00:04]:
Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. In today's episode we are talking all about breakups and specifically how different attachment styles, people with different attachment patterns are likely to experience and respond to breakups. So I know I say this at the start of every episode, but this is something that I get asked about a lot, particularly from my anxious attachers. No surprises there. And people wondering a why breakups feel so intensely hard for people with anxious attachment patterns, but also desperately trying to decipher what their often avoidant leaning ex partner is thinking, feeling why would they do this? Why aren't they doing that? And while you would know, if you're familiar with my work, my approach that I usually will politely decline to join you in analysing and hypothesising about someone's behaviour, why would they do this? What does it mean when they do that? I think that playing that game actually just keeps us more stuck and so I usually opt out of that and gently discourage you from spending too much time and energy in that, spinning around in the hypothesising.
Stephanie Rigg [00:01:44]:
At the same time, there are some clearly observed differences in the way that folks with anxious attachment patterns tend to process and experience a breakup compared with those who have more avoided patterns. And I think that in having a conversation around this we can cultivate greater understanding and be less inclined to project our own way onto the other person's behaviour and interpret accordingly. So I think again, and we do this all throughout relationships, right? All throughout the life cycle of a relationship. I think without conscious awareness, we do tend to project and receive someone's behaviour as what it would mean if we did that, notwithstanding that we're coming from completely different places, we have completely different sensitivities and values and all of those things. We put ourselves in their shoes and then construct meaning and it tends to give a very inaccurate and distorted and one sided view of things, which, spoiler alert, usually makes things worse because we then craft these painful stories out of it. So
I'm hoping that in today's episode I can give you a bit more context for that and probably more of an insight into that avoidant experience post breakup, so that you can understand that, depersonalise it a little and hopefully keep your eyes on your own paper, stay in your own lane a little, and support yourself as best you can. If you are going through a breakup, or maybe you've been through a breakup and you've had a lot of unanswered questions and wondered these same things, so hopefully I can give you some insights there. Before we dive into that, a couple of quick announcements.
Stephanie Rigg [00:03:31]:
The first being you might have heard me announce that I'm holding a Live Master class in a couple of weeks time on Building Trust. So this will be a 90 minutes. Although in the past I've tended to go a little overtime, so probably 90 minutes to 2 hours. Live Masterclass where we'll be talking all about trust, both self trust and relational trust, how to build trust, looking at trust wounds, rebuilding after infidelity, whether you've got kind of legacy trust issues from a previous relationship, how to learn to trust yourself more, intuition, all of those topics will be woven in. Even as I'm saying this, I'm wondering how I'm going to fit it all into 2 hours. But anyway, that's what we're going to do. If you'd like to come along to that. I would love to see as many of you there as possible.
Stephanie Rigg [00:04:17]:
There will be a recording that you'll have access to afterwards as well. If you're unable to join Live or you just want to revisit the material and you can find the link to that in the show notes or directly on my website. Second quick announcements just to share the featured review, which is I've listened to a few episodes and already learnt so much.
Stephanie's calm, kind, compassionate approach is helping me understand relationships and myself at a deeper level. Thank you Stephanie. Keep on making a difference. Thank you for that beautiful review. I really appreciate it and I'm so glad that you are new to the show and already seeing an impact in your life and the way you're relating to yourself and others.
Stephanie Rigg [00:04:55]:
If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierigg.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my Masterclasses, which includes, if you would like, a free ticket to the Rebuilding Trust Live Masterclass so you can choose that one rather than one of my preexisting Masterclasses if you so desire.
Okay, so let's dive into this conversation around attachment and breakups. So I've spoken at length on the show and elsewhere around anxious attachment and breakups and I'll give a bit of a recap on that for anyone who needs a refresher. Or perhaps if you haven't listened to me speak about this before. For anxiously attached people, breakups tend to be very, very challenging. We know that for anxious folks, connection is a very, very high ranking need and the relationship tends to be our anchor and our source of safety. We really lean on the relationship as giving us identity, as giving us purpose. We tend to orbit around that and really prioritise the relationship above the other pillars of our life.
Stephanie Rigg [00:06:03]:
And while that's not, oh, you're so anxious and clingy and needy because of those traits or preferences, it's normal. I would say that folks with secure attachment patterns also find their relationship to be a source of security and comfort and stability and they prioritise it. And that's not an anxious trope. Anxious folks tend to over index on their relationship to the exclusion of other areas of their life or to the detriment of other areas of their life which can be neglected in favour of putting the relationship first. Above. All else, and particularly if a relationship is under stress or strain, the anxious person will up the ante on how much time and energy they are devoting to being around their partner, trying to fix the relationship, thinking about the relationship. All of your internal resources are going to be funnelled into like Operation Save This Sinking Ship, right? And so the irony there being that as you keep ramping up your efforts, as the relationship becomes more and more strained, if you do then find yourself in this situation of a breakup, the relationship has ended, you've expended all this energy trying to save it and you're left really empty handed. And it can be a double edged sword because you feel this sense of failure that you weren't able to salvage the relationship and at the same time you then turn around and look at the rest of your life and there's not much happening because you became so laser focused on the relationship.
Stephanie Rigg [00:07:47]:
And you might have neglected friendships. You might have isolated yourself. You might have stopped doing whatever else you usually do. You might have abandoned your regular routines or become disengaged from work or any number of other things because you were so focused on the relationship and trying to stop it from ending when it was feeling really dire. And so for the anxious person, there are so many different layers of struggle here. Not only have they lost this anchor and this safety blanket, but there's a sense of failure, there's the sense of the unknown, of uncertainty. All of these things are big triggers for people who struggle with anxiety and usually try and manage that anxiety through control and creating predictability, through focusing on another person and their needs. All of these patterns that are pretty common among most anxiously attached people.
Stephanie Rigg [00:08:47]:
You've got all of this kind of energy that you are used to heaping onto someone else and a relationship and all of a sudden you don't know what to do with yourself. And that can feel just incredibly uncomfortable and you can feel almost frantic and panicked and very, very overwhelmed by that experience. Being in the void of all of that is just deeply uncomfortable. And so many anxiously attached folks will just spin out after a breakup and feel this overwhelming urge to reconnect with their partner. Not knowing how your partner is thinking or feeling, if you're not in contact with them, that is also likely to be incredibly difficult. So all of a sudden, this person who you're used to having access to and you're accustomed to feeling entitled to speak to them and to know how they're feeling and to know what they're doing and who they're spending. Time with and all of those things, all of a sudden you kind of overnight you lose jurisdiction over that and that can feel again for someone whose tendencies to create safety via a level of control and oversight feeling. Like you've just lost power there and that you no longer have any right or entitlement to know what they're thinking, to know what they're feeling, to know what they're doing with their time, who they're seeing, all of those things that is likely to send you into spirals of stress and panic and anxiety and jealousy and all of those other things.
Stephanie Rigg [00:10:19]:
And I think that behaviours like stalking their social media and when have they been online and who have they been talking to? Oh, did they just start following this person? Is that some all of that stuff, which I'm sure you're listening and some of you will be sheepishly raising your hand and going, yep, that's me done that. I get it, you are not alone. A lot of people do. I've done that before. It's a really easy trap to fall into just feeling like we need to gather information to somehow arm ourselves because that's just what we know to do. But of course, none of that is really helping us. And as always, the healing and the growth and the thing we really need, the medicine that we need, even though it's not what we want, is to turn from our obsessive focus on the other back to ourselves. Go, okay, I am feeling all of these big feelings.
Stephanie Rigg [00:11:15]:
I'm feeling scared, I'm feeling lonely, I'm feeling rejected, I'm feeling a sense of failure and humiliation and shame and loss and grief. And instead of being with those feelings, I am trying to fix or distract or avoid or get away from the immense overwhelm that comes with all of that big emotion because we don't trust ourselves to be able to handle it right, because we are so accustomed to the other person providing the safety. So I think that the very best thing we can do, as much as it's the last thing that we would do by instinct or impulse is actually to just focus on ourselves and try and release the grip, to surrender to the fact that we are no longer in control of this person. Not that we ever were, but we really now, as I said, we don't have jurisdiction over that anymore and obsessing over them and what they're doing and what they're thinking and what they're feeling is very much our way of trying to create a sense of control when we're feeling out of control. And so I think the best thing we can do is offer ourselves a more adaptive strategy which is going to be focusing on us. That is really the task of people with anxious attachment patterns, whether you're in a relationship or not, if you want to really work on healing and growing and cultivating a greater sense of security. You need to rebuild the foundations within yourself because that's where you are perhaps underdeveloped because you've been so accustomed to focusing on the other person. You need to start laying those bricks of self worth and self respect and self trust and self compassion, self esteem.
Stephanie Rigg [00:12:58]:
Those are the things that allow you to stand on your own. 2ft. To go to relationship with a strong sense of self and really love with an open heart rather than love someone with a lot of fear behind it and a need to control and grip and cling and all of those things. So that is your work and I really think that a breakup is a beautiful opportunity to take stock and to really look at that and go, okay, what are the lessons learned and what is next? That turned into a little bit of a soapbox pep talk for my anxious attaches. That was meant to be a quick setting of the scene. But anyway, we're now going to talk about the avoidant experience, which spoiler alert, is not what I just described in 99% of cases. And of course I will give the caveat that I should have done this at the start that of course everyone's different, right? To say like anxious people do this and avoidant people do that, universally categorically, the end overly simplistic. So this is not gospel, this is not universal, but it is often true in a general sense.
Stephanie Rigg [00:14:05]:
And that is to say that for avoidant leaning folk you'll recall I was saying, as a relationship becomes more strained towards the end, anxious folks dial up the intensity and they ramp up their attempts at fixing, saving, controlling, getting closer, problem solving. One more chance they might engage in more conflict and more demands in this desperate effort to get engagement and to turn the ship around. Avoidant folks, as things get more strained, become more and more overwhelmed and it just SAPS them of energy. It's like it drains the battery so fast because avoidant folks really value relational harmony and for them to feel like a relationship is just constant work, that is a very exhausting experience. I think it's exhausting for anxious folks as well, but it's not exhausting in the sense of like I can't do this, I'm out. Anxious leaning people tend to roll up their sleeves and want to do that work kind of relentlessly rather than walking away and deciding it's too much. For avoidant folks, I think that that just becomes more trouble than it's worth. And reminding ourselves that there is a really different baseline in terms of need to be in a relationship and if aloneness is comfortable, that is the comfort zone.
Stephanie Rigg [00:15:37]:
For a lot of people with avoidant patterns, the being in a relationship is the thing that is challenging them. And so as soon as the relationship becomes consistently tense and strained and conflict ridden, and they're feeling like they're under attack the whole time or like they're constantly being dragged into a three hour long conversation every other day where someone is highly emotional and you're going around in circles. That is not what an avoidant person, they don't get a lot out of that and that can just very quickly tip the scales in favour of this isn't working, this is costing me more than it's giving to me, it's too much, it's too exhausting, it's not working. And so when the relationship has been like that in the lead up to a breakup, the first thing that most avoidant people are going to feel is a sense of relief. There will be this sense of like, okay, I was feeling all of that stress and now that stress is alleviated and I feel free again and I feel relief and it's not like free, woohoo, I'm going to go out and sleep with a bunch of people. I mean, some people might do that and whatever, but I think that to suggest that it's freedom in the sense of, oh, now I'm single, like it's party time. I don't think that that's true. I think it is just a lifting of a huge emotional burden that comes with relational tension over time.
Stephanie Rigg [00:17:06]:
And so for avoidant folks, there is this sense of probably peace and relief retreating to an environment of aloneness where they feel like they're back in control and they don't feel like a failure and a disappointment. Someone's always upset with them and wanting things from them that they can't give. And so you might see that an avoidant person after a breakup is likely to seem pretty fine, particularly at the start. So they might seem to be pretty okay. And you might see them socialising a lot, they might distract themselves because like you, they don't know how to be with those big emotions that might be underneath that relief, but their way of coping with that. Whereas the anxious person tries to get away from those emotions by obsessing over the intellectualization of them and trying to find information and focusing on the other person and trying to solve the problem. Avoidant person tends to avoid and distract and numb. So they might go out and socialise a lot, they might throw themselves into work, they might take up a new hobby or something.
Stephanie Rigg [00:18:17]:
They might just go all in on other areas of life in a way that from the outside, if you're looking at them and you're following them on social media or whatever, you might look and just see them seemingly being fine and looking even like they're thriving. And that's probably pretty excruciating for you if you are more anxious. Because again, as I said at the start, you are interpreting what you are seeing through the lens of what it would mean if you were doing that. So for you, if you a week after a breakup were out socialising heaps and maybe going on a trip or all of those things are unfathomable because you're in this really dark place, you're going, wow, for me to be in that place, I must not care at all. I would have to not care at all. I would have to not miss them at all. I would have to have not even really loved them. I didn't value the relationship.
Stephanie Rigg [00:19:09]:
That's the only way that I could be ready for all of that. But that is just such a projection coming from a very different starting point and a very different experience and emotional landscape and way of coping with things. So while that's likely to be the avoidant person's initial experience, what will often happen is that a few weeks might go by, a month might go by, and then they might start to kind of really come to terms with what's happened. And that initial experience of relief might become something a little bit more sad, or having that grief come up, probably not in the same intense, overwhelming or consuming way as anxious person would, but still like having the, oh, that's sad, I miss them. And this is where you'll see people reaching out or they might like your Instagram story or send a casual message saying, hey, how are you? And I always get anxious attaches going, why would they send me a message? Why would they do that? I haven't heard from them for three weeks and all of a sudden they get this random message. Often that is what's happening, that they've kind of come through the fog of that initial period and realised what's happened. And again, people go, oh, if they missed me, does that mean we should get back together? You know, a lot of you would know that my take on that is not that getting back together is a bad thing or that you should never do that. But I think it's got to be based on a whole lot more than missing each other.
Stephanie Rigg [00:20:44]:
Because that's just going to lead you right back to where you started and you'll be in the same patterns and the same dynamics. As soon as you have that temporary relief of getting back together, you haven't actually resolved anything substantively. There's a really good chance that you'll be right back where you started. But that is kind of the arc or the trajectory that you could expect from a lot of folks with avoidant patterns is that they will seem to be fine and then they might have a bit of a hangover. But it's kind of a delay because of that initial experience of relief and feeling like, oh, thank God I'm not in the midst of that really high conflict, intense, overwhelming dynamic, which is what the tone of a lot of these relationships are right before a breakup. So I hope that that's been helpful in giving you a bit of a sense of those contrasting experiences. Again, I offer that with a view to helping you depersonalise and maybe cheque yourself on those projections and those stories you're telling yourself about like, oh, that's what their behaviour means, they're fine. That means that I'm pathetic and I loved them more and they never cared about me again.
Stephanie Rigg [00:21:58]:
That just really adds to our suffering and is not helpful at all. If this episode is something that you are really needing right now and you're in the midst of a breakup, definitely cheque out my Higher Love course. It's a breakup course. It's very comprehensive and it also has a bonus masterclass called Attachment Styles and Breakups, which is about 45 minutes and is more of a deep dive on the conversation we've had here today. And you can use the code Phoenix to save $150 on Higher Love, so you can enter that code at the checkout and you will save $150. So sending so much love to anyone who is going through a breakup. I know that it's tough. In a couple of weeks time, maybe next week, I'm going to do a Q and A episode all on breakup.
Stephanie Rigg [00:22:44]:
So covering a few different topics because it is one of the areas that I get a lot of requests for support from, from people who listen to the show and who follow me on Instagram and all of those things. So keep an ear out for that if that is something you're going through at the moment. Otherwise, so grateful for you all being here and I look forward to seeing you again next time. Thanks, guys. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much.
Stephanie Rigg [00:23:26]:
Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
The Anxious Dater's Guide: How to Remain Grounded in the Early Dating Phase
Is your anxiety getting the better of you in the early stages of dating? Well, take a deep breath and let's journey together through this episode where we unravel the common anxieties in early dating, particularly for those with an anxious attachment style.
Is your anxiety getting the better of you in the early stages of dating? Well, take a deep breath and let's journey together through this episode where we unravel the common anxieties in early dating, particularly for those with an anxious attachment style.
We'll delve into the raw aspects of why this period can trigger our deepest sensitivities and how we can make this an empowering voyage of self-discovery. From learning to stay grounded, boosting confidence, to finding joy in the dating process, this episode is a treasure trove of insights and advice.
This episode goes beyond mere dating advice. We'll explore:
WHAT WE’LL COVER:
Why it's problematic to completely alter your life for someone you've just met, and how it impacts the budding relationship.
How to gain clarity about what you're looking for in a partner and a relationship, and how to articulate those needs effectively.
The importance of taking things slow.
How to get comfortable with the uncertainty that is inherent in the early dating phase.
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Join the waitlist for Healing Anxious Attachment
Apply for my 6-month Homecoming Mastermind
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:00.09 → 0:00:37.91
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship Coach Stephanie Rigg and I'm really glad you're here. You hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. In today's episode, we're going to be talking all about how to manage anxiety in early dating.
0:00:38.03 → 0:01:41.06
So this is a topic that is requested all the time. I know that a lot of my content usually tends towards relational stuff meaning navigating dynamics while you're actually in a relationship, but I recognise that for a lot of people that might not be the situation that you're in. And you're actually in that casual dating world and experiencing the ups and downs of anxious attachment or whatever other relational challenges that you have in the context of early dating and really looking for support in how to navigate. That process with more confidence, with more groundedness in a way that actually allows you to enjoy the process rather than feeling like it's just a source of stress and overwhelm and anxiety. So I'm going to be contextualising why anxiety can find us in that early dating process, why it can feel really stressful and overwhelming.
0:01:41.12 → 0:02:26.31
Why it can trigger some of our most tender parts and then also giving you some. Really practical and concrete tips on how to keep yourself grounded and how to hopefully maintain or build a sense of confidence within yourself so that you can be in that dating process from a place of more ease and enjoyment and all of those things that actually allow you to the most of it. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. Before we dive into that, a couple of quick announcements. The first being that Homecoming, which is my small group six month mastermind programme, kicks off next week and I still have, I think, one, maybe two spots left in the group.
0:02:26.35 → 0:03:14.85
It's a really small group, only ten people, and this is a programme for people who are wanting in depth coaching directly with me over a longer period of time. So it's weekly small group calls and we really go deep. So if you're looking to invest in high level support and really benefit from the community component, that comes with a nice small group, which I know for a lot of people is kind of intimidating as an idea. It's certainly intimidating for me to do anything in a group setting. But the more I do it, both as a participant and as a facilitator, the more I sing the praises of group work, because I think it acts as a real multiplier on our growth.
0:03:14.90 → 0:03:52.39
Because it really forces us into a level of vulnerability that most of us shy away from most of the time. So if you are wanting to work with me directly and you're wanting to invest in that long term high level support. Homecoming is a really beautiful option. The link to apply is in the show notes and as I said, we kick off next week, so if you're interested in that, don't delay. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review for today, which is as someone with anxious attachment style, I feel both validated and challenged by Stephanie's work and appreciate the constant reminders to look inwards instead of trying to control others.
0:03:52.46 → 0:04:09.32
I look forward to every episode. Thanks from Canada. Thank you so much for that review, Greg from Canada. I'm so pleased that you've had that experience and I think what you say around looking inwards instead of trying to control others is really a huge part of the work. So I'm glad that that's what you've taken from the show.
0:04:09.45 → 0:04:42.79
If that was your review, please send an email to my team at podcast@stephanierigg.com and we'll set you up with free access to one of my master classes as a way to say thank you. Okay, so let's dive into this conversation around managing anxiety in early dating. Now, I think it's really important to start by saying that anxiety in early dating is really common and normal and is not in and of itself a problem to be solved. It's not a red flag. We don't have to freak out, we don't have to pathologize it.
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I think that it is really understandable that we would feel a level of nervousness, anxiety, sometimes excitement, all of these different emotions and feelings when we're in that early dating process. I think that's true for most people. And then I think if we overlay the attachment stuff, on top of that for anxiously attached people, it's going to be particularly stress inducing to be in that in between space of early dating because it challenges all of your edges, right? Things like uncertainty, things like really wanting to be close to someone but not having control over that, wanting to be in a relationship, feeling insecure about how someone might feel about you, wondering if they're interested or not. All of these things are very much alive and present in that early dating process.
0:05:38.89 → 0:06:12.51
So I think that recognising that is an important starting point. Right. Anxiety thrives in uncertainty. We know that in every setting, the more uncertainty unpredictability there is, the more our anxious parts seek to protect us by going into overdrive, by overthinking, by analysing, by scrutinising. These are mechanisms that we have developed to protect ourselves when whatever the situation we're in feels unpredictable and therefore unsafe for us.
0:06:12.55 → 0:07:02.19
And again, when we have this attachment overlay, it acts like a multiplier effect on all of those things that are already there as a baseline. For us as humans, early dating is a time when we are likely to have less clarity and certainty and routine. We don't have the right or entitlement to dictate what someone else is doing, not that we really do later in a relationship necessarily either. But certainly in that early stage there is this sense of not being able to have full transparency over someone, fully accessing them, their inner world, what they're doing, what they're thinking, what they're feeling. We haven't gotten to the stage where we're entitled to know those things and so there are going to be a lot of question marks, right?
0:07:02.39 → 0:07:23.98
Particularly so if it's very early and you've been on one date or you're messaging someone, you just have to be in this level of uncertainty and there's not a lot that you can do to bypass that or to fast track it or to get around it. Right? I think that the more excited we feel about someone, the more anxiety we have. Right? Again, this makes sense.
0:07:24.67 → 0:08:23.06
The stakes feel really high. I think that for those with an anxious attachment style the tendency to want to go from zero to 100 not only in actually attaching to someone very quickly and wanting to go very deep very quickly and build this very intense connection because, again, that feels safer than the in between space. But all of the fantasising of planning your future life together when you've just seen this person once or wanting to fill in all of the blanks with what could be and becoming very attached to the potential or the idea of someone all of those things can stimulate this. What almost feels like a roller coaster or an avalanche of excitement, anxiety. Again, recognising the fine line between those emotional experiences and the felt sense of those experiences.
0:08:23.17 → 0:09:15.15
Again, I think when we have more anxious attachment tendencies we tend to derive a lot of our self esteem and our self worth from whatever is happening outside of us and particularly in a relational sphere. So if I am going on a date with someone and I can get them to be really excited about me or get them to pursue me very actively, then that's going to feel not only exciting in the sense that it would for anyone. Because, again, I don't want to make this out to be some sort of anxious, attachment specific trope to feel good when someone's pursuing you. But when all of our self worth is existing outside of us, and we don't have much of an inner anchor on that, then we're putting all of our eggs in the basket of someone else and letting them determine whether or not we are worth anything. Right?
0:09:15.22 → 0:10:11.40
Whether or not we are attractive enough or smart enough or compelling enough or funny enough or whatever it might be, we are letting them be the sole arbiter of those things. And that is a pretty risky space to dwell in and to live in in this early dating process when realistically you don't know this person, they are a stranger to you. And we're giving this person, who we don't really know a lot of power over how we're feeling about ourselves at a pretty fundamental level. Okay, I think that all of that is compounded by the fact that anxiously attached people also tend to go all in very quickly. So even if on the surface the relationship is very much casual and isn't committed and maybe the other person still kind of taking it slow, you might be on the inside completely consumed by thinking about this person.
0:10:11.58 → 0:11:11.26
All you can do is cheque if they've messaged you a million times a day, cheque their social media, cheque this, cheque that. They're occupying so much real estate in your being that you are all of a sudden orbiting around them, your life has become about this person that you don't even know within a matter of days of first connecting with them. And I think that when we do that, we become very tunnel visioned and again, that can make us much more prone and susceptible to disappointment and hurt and pain if the relationship doesn't work right. We can really get very wobbly when we've only got one leg holding up the table. So recognising all of that and noticing those tendencies within yourself, I think that we can see, looking at that backdrop, why early dating can be such an anxiety inducing process for us.
0:11:11.36 → 0:12:00.54
So part of that is natural and part of that is exacerbated by our tendencies, particularly if you are someone who leans more towards anxious attachment and you do tend to go a million miles an hour and go all in very quickly and want to fast track that whole process. Now I want to offer you some tips on that. Recognising that that experience can be very destabilising and it makes sense why it would be. So I want to offer you some tips, things that you can do to create a little bit more balance to remain grounded or at least more grounded than you otherwise might be in that process. So the first tip I want to offer you is to get familiar with your personal warning signs.
0:12:00.60 → 0:12:45.68
Now, I don't want to be alarmist because I think that whenever we use language like warning signs or red flags and people can be very almost hyper vigilant about themselves, I always get people asking me like, oh no, is it a red flag if I feel excited about someone? I don't think we want to swing too far to the other extreme of being really militant about policing our own behaviour. But that being said, know yourself, right? And if you know that you're checking your phone 5 million times a day or you know that you're not wanting to make plans with friends because you want to be completely available in case this person reaches out to you or calls you or whatever, right, recognise those things and cheque in with yourself and go, okay, what's it costing me? Right?
0:12:45.73 → 0:13:14.90
What is it costing me to do this? Is that a road I want to go down and be more self responsible, right. We can observe ourselves and with that distance and perspective, we can hopefully create space for choice and go, okay, here's the thing I've always done, and I seem to be going down that road by default, which makes sense. We all do that unless we have conscious awareness and deliberate choice where we're going to do the thing we've always done. So recognise it.
0:13:14.92 → 0:13:46.10
What are my warning signs and what is the thing I'm going to do differently this time? What would it be like if I put my phone on aeroplane mode during the day when I'm at work and didn't cheque it a million times and just see? Right. Cultivating that relationship of self trust requires that you act in a self responsible way, rather than just playing out the same loops over and over again with the same painful or stress inducing or anxiety inducing consequences, right? That's not a very good way to build self trust.
0:13:46.79 → 0:14:13.23
The next tip that I want to offer you, which is sort of in the same vein, is set boundaries with yourself to support your well being. So if you know that your anxiety gets really bad around texting and being in this constant state of anticipation on, when am I next going to hear from them? Set boundaries for yourself, say, to someone in the morning. Like, if you exchange texts first thing in the morning, say, I've got a busy day at work today, let's talk tonight. Right?
0:14:13.30 → 0:14:57.87
So you have the bookend that will give you a level of comfort that you're going to have more contact with them later. But you're not in this constant state of being in a holding pattern, waiting all day, anticipating, because, again, that takes up a lot of energy and occupies way too much emotional real estate within you in a way that is not going to be healthy or conducive. So set boundaries with yourself to support your well being. Related to that is, keep up your routines and continue to have a life outside of this person. Again, particularly if this is very, very early dating, I think we need to zoom out a lot of the time and go, wow, look at me, dropping everything to make my life about this person and this connection.
0:14:57.97 → 0:15:13.93
That is not healthy, okay? It's really not healthy. It's not going to get you what you want. And if anything, to be very frank, it's not attractive to just drop everything and be completely available to someone that you've just met. Right.
0:15:14.05 → 0:16:10.88
I think that if you think about it, most people are attracted to the person who has stuff going on in their life, who's got friends, who's got work, who's got hobbies, who's got all of these other things, rather than the person who is kind of like a puppy dog panting at you, tugging at your sleeve or something, right? It's not actually energy that is supportive of a really thriving relationship dynamic, one that is based on desire and anticipation and longing. If you're just permanently available and deferring to whatever they want to do all the time, and don't worry about me. I'll do what you want to do, that kind of energy is not really attractive and I think actually robs you of the excitement of that early period where there is this level of mystery and longing and missing one another. So enjoy that.
0:16:10.93 → 0:16:35.66
And part of enjoying that is continue with all of your stuff, right? Don't drop everything to be available to this person all the time. If they want to see you, you will see each other. You don't have to be permanently available in order for that to happen. So keep going to the gym or keep going to social events that don't include this person.
0:16:36.03 → 0:17:02.86
Keep up with your life and allow them to fit into it and vice versa, rather than completely rearranging your life to accommodate someone that you've just met. Okay, the next tip is be clear in what you're looking for both within yourself. So be really honest with yourself. What am I looking for? It always amazes me how few people actually have clarity around what they're looking for in a relationship and in a partner.
0:17:03.00 → 0:17:33.40
I think particularly, again, if you tend towards anxious attachment, the sole criterion tends to be that someone is pursuing me and wants me because that feels so good to us. So I think that having a level of discernment that goes beyond that as the sole criterion is going to work in your favour, for obvious reasons. So get really clear what am I looking for in a bigger sense structurally in my life? Am I looking for a long term partner? Am I looking for someone to have a family with?
0:17:33.50 → 0:18:02.99
Am I looking for something casual? Know that for yourself and be really clear on it. Know what your deal breakers are, know what your non negotiables are, know what your values are, what are the things that are really important to you and a partner. Have clarity around that for yourself because otherwise you're just kind of treading water in high seas and grabbing onto anything that you might float past you along the way and say they'll do, right? So be discerning.
0:18:03.12 → 0:18:43.02
You're much more likely to have not only success in finding a partner who's a good fit for you, obviously, but you have a lot more self confidence when you actually know what you're looking for and you can comfortably say no to the things that aren't a fit. The corollary of that is be clear in what you're looking for as between you and whoever you are exploring a connection with. Now, this doesn't mean that you have to lay down the law on the first date and tell them, here's my five year plan. Do you fit into this? But equally, I don't think that you need to be cagey or dishonest around what you're looking for.
0:18:43.20 → 0:19:32.99
And I think the sooner that you can reveal any structural incompatibilities between you to the extent that those exist, the better off you are, right? Because it's just a waste of time. So be very direct around what you're looking for and trust that the people who are looking for the same thing are going to receive that positively rather than being freaked out by it or turned off by it. The next piece of advice that I want to give you is go slower than feels natural. So again, if you turn more towards anxious attachment, your impulse is going to be how quickly can I forge a really intense connection with this person that allows me to kind of sink my teeth in and establish a level of safety via proximity and control, right?
0:19:33.19 → 0:20:09.93
Being in that in between space where we don't really know what the relationship is yet feels very, very out of control for most people. And so all of your protective parts are going to be urging you to find a way to fast track whether that's by having very intense conversations or disclosures or expressing emotions or whatever other things might feel like a way to almost leapfrog over that in between stage of early dating. Your body and your being is going to be telling you to do that. And I get it. I have been historically terrible at taking this advice that I'm giving you now.
0:20:10.05 → 0:20:58.57
But nevertheless, I think it's really important and it's a massive growth edge for us as anxiously attached people. There's a lot of really fruitful personal work in this particular tip. So go slower than feels natural. Dwell in that space of the unknown and uncertainty, feel the discomfort of that and choose to build up your resilience and your capacity to be in that rather than to frantically try and find ways to opt out of that discomfort or to bypass it or to, as I said, to kind of leapfrog over it. So learn how to be in that in between space, go slower than feels natural and build up your tolerance level for discomfort in the process.
0:20:58.77 → 0:21:40.53
And last but not least, try and really soak up the excitement of this period without feeding the anxiety. Right? For a lot of us when we have excitement, it comes with a side of anxiety or stress because we don't trust that something good won't become something bad. We might have had experiences where we got excited about someone and then we got disappointed and that makes us very on guard or on alert for the fact that as soon as there's something good, something bad is going to follow. Soon thereafter we're going to get rejected by this person who is currently showing interest in us.
0:21:40.62 → 0:22:53.02
And as soon as we've got that other voice that's saying it isn't safe to just be excited, then anxiety takes over, right? That protective part is going to be stronger and louder than the part that feels optimistic and excited and that really robs us of the beauty of this experience, of getting to know someone or multiple people and being curious and being open and being playful and being flirtatious and all of those things that are a really beautiful part of that experience. We are denying ourselves of that opportunity when we go straight into anxiety and control and manipulation and how do I get myself a sense of safety here in a way that allows me to opt out of this discomfort? So try to play with can I just feel and enjoy the excitement of this experience without trying to grip it or hold on to it or ensure that I don't lose it? Can I actually just be present with the good stuff while it's here, rather than finding ways to let my fear tell me that it's not safe to just feel that positive stuff, to feel all the yummy good stuff in the dating process.
0:22:53.12 → 0:23:33.33
So try to experience that excitement without letting the anxiety cloud your vision and tell you that it's not safe to do so. Okay, so that was how to manage anxiety in early dating. I hope that that's been helpful in contextualising. Not only why it's totally understandable and normal, particularly if you tend more towards anxious attachment, that you would feel a lot of anxiety in early dating because it really is pushing a lot of those buttons around. Uncertainty, lack of control, validation, seeking people, pleasing unworthiness all of that stuff is really front and centre when we're in that early dating period.
0:23:33.43 → 0:24:27.23
So it's totally understandable that you'd be feeling anxiety and that all of your anxious parts would be on high alert and front and centre. But I'm hoping that with those tips, that gives you a bit more of an action plan on how to manage that for yourself, so that you can not only try and soothe the anxiety, but you can actually really stay connected to a sense of self and build that self trust and self worth in the process so that you can actually enjoy being in that dating process rather than feeling like it's just stressful all the time. Because for obvious reasons, that is going to rob you of all of the positives of dating and getting to know people and building connection. If you've enjoyed this episode, as always, I'm super grateful. For those of you who leave reviews and ratings, it really is the most helpful way to get the word out about the podcast.
0:24:27.65 → 0:24:44.44
Share it with the people in your life, share it on social media, all of those things are a huge help to me and I am so appreciative for all of you who tune in and who do share and review the podcast. Otherwise, thank you so much for joining me and I look forward to seeing you later in the week. Thanks guys.
0:24:47.05 → 0:25:09.10
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
"Can a relationship between two anxiously attached people work?"
In today's Q&A episode, I'm answering the question of "Can a relationship between two anxiously attached people work?". I get variations of this question a lot - basically, why wouldn't anxious and avoidant people save themselves the trouble by sticking to their own kind? Well, as always, it's not quite that simple...
If you have an anxious attachment style, you’ve likely experienced the struggles of dating people with more avoidant attachment styles. You might find yourself constantly battling against differing needs and expectations around closeness and emotional intimacy. In contrast, anxiously attached people often crave a lot of time together, making the relationship a significant focus of their lives.
So, why don’t anxiously attached people just date each other? Wouldn’t it be easier to be with someone who has the same needs for connection, intimacy, and togetherness? It seems logical, but in reality, we rarely see anxious-anxious pairings. In this post, we’ll explore why this is the case, the dynamics that emerge when two anxiously attached people do come together, and why avoidant-avoidant relationships are also uncommon.
Why Opposites Attract in Relationships
For many people with anxious attachment, dating someone with avoidant tendencies feels familiar. While it’s not always easy, there’s a magnetic pull towards avoidant partners. This attraction often comes from our tendency to be drawn to people who possess traits that differ from our own.
An anxiously attached person who struggles with low self-worth and independence might find an avoidant partner’s independence, assertiveness, and confidence particularly appealing. On the flip side, an avoidant partner, who tends to suppress their emotional world, may be drawn to the emotional expressiveness and affection of someone with anxious attachment. This "opposites attract" dynamic plays a big role in why anxious and avoidant individuals often find themselves in relationships with each other.
The Rare Case of Anxious-Anxious Pairings
While it seems logical for two anxiously attached people to date, it rarely happens in practice. Even if it does, the dynamic often shifts over time. Here’s why:
Attraction to Avoidant Traits: As mentioned, anxiously attached individuals often feel a stronger attraction to people who possess qualities they themselves feel they lack, such as independence or emotional detachment. Therefore, they are less likely to be drawn to someone with the same anxious tendencies.
Emotional Saturation: In relationships where both partners are anxiously attached, the dynamic tends to recalibrate after some time. When both people want constant closeness, one partner may start feeling overwhelmed. The emotional intensity of the relationship can reach a point where one person begins to pull back, taking on a more avoidant role. It’s not that they suddenly become avoidant in a long-term sense, but within the context of this particular relationship, they may need to create space to balance the overwhelming closeness.
The Recalibration Effect: Relationships are dynamic systems, and partners often adjust to each other’s behaviors. In an anxious-anxious pairing, one person will usually lean towards avoidance to create a balance. When both people are "full throttle" with their emotional needs and demands for closeness, the relationship can feel unsustainable. As a result, one person pulls back, and the dynamic starts to resemble the anxious-avoidant pattern, but on a lesser scale.
Avoidant-Avoidant Relationships: Why They’re Uncommon
Just as anxious-anxious pairings are rare, avoidant-avoidant relationships are also uncommon. While it might seem like two avoidantly attached people would be an ideal match because they both value independence and emotional distance, these relationships often struggle to gain traction or deepen into emotional intimacy.
Lack of Emotional Glue: Avoidantly attached people typically find it difficult to connect deeply with their emotions and the emotions of others. In a relationship between two avoidants, this can lead to a lack of the emotional “glue” that bonds partners together. With both individuals keeping a distance, there’s little to anchor the relationship in terms of vulnerability or emotional closeness.
Difficulty with Commitment: Avoidant individuals often fear the vulnerability required for deep connection, which makes it hard to build and maintain a close, committed relationship. When both partners are avoidant, they might struggle to invest enough emotionally to keep the relationship alive, leading to stagnation or detachment over time.
The Anxious-Avoidant Dynamic Emerges: Similar to anxious-anxious pairings, avoidant-avoidant relationships may shift over time. As the relationship progresses, one partner might become more anxious in response to the ongoing emotional distance. For example, one partner might begin to feel abandoned or lonely, triggering a need for more connection. As a result, they may start acting in ways that resemble anxious attachment, while the other partner remains or becomes even more avoidant. This creates a new, albeit milder, version of the anxious-avoidant dynamic.
Is the Anxious-Avoidant Relationship Doomed?
While anxious-avoidant relationships are often seen as challenging, they aren’t inherently doomed. With the right awareness, skills, and a commitment to growth, these relationships can be healing. However, both partners need to be willing to understand their attachment styles and work towards healthy communication and emotional connection.
Anxious-anxious and avoidant-avoidant pairings, while uncommon, often shift into more familiar dynamics over time, with one partner leaning towards the opposite attachment style. This recalibration helps balance the relationship, though it can also lead to challenges if both partners don’t have the tools to navigate these shifts.
While it might seem easier for anxiously attached people to date each other or for avoidantly attached people to pair up, the reality is that we’re often drawn to partners with opposing traits. The attraction between anxious and avoidant individuals stems from our deeper needs and desires. Relationships, whether between anxious, avoidant, or mixed attachment styles, require awareness, communication, and commitment to working through the inevitable challenges that arise.
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Episode Transcript
0:00:00.41 → 0:00:40.76
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship Coach Stephanie Rigg, and I'm really glad you're here. Um, hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's episode is a Q and A episode and I'm answering the question of can a relationship between two anxiously attached people work?
0:00:41.29 → 0:01:51.43
So this is a question that I get quite a lot and I'm going to answer that question and also the alternative version of that, which is kind of relationship between two avoided people work, or why don't avoidant people tend to date each other and anxious people tend to date each other. So I think this is something that many people wonder, perhaps when they are or have been in an anxious avoidant dynamic and they experience the struggle of that opposition, of feeling like they need to compromise so heavily on their needs and preferences because they are in partnership with someone who has opposing needs and preferences. And so the logical solution seems to be, why don't I just find someone with the same needs and preferences as me when it comes to all of those attachment patterns, and then everything will be resolved. We'll live happily ever after, two anxiouses, spending all of our time together, being obsessed with each other, both feet on the accelerator and the avoidance can go over there and be in their relationship where they have lots of space and peace among the lands. As you can probably tell from the way I'm talking about that, it's a little messier and more complicated.
0:01:51.56 → 0:02:33.06
And as is often the case, what makes logical sense often doesn't take into account the emotional layers that drive a lot of our behaviours when it comes to relationships. So I'm going to be speaking about that not only can these versions of relationship work, can these pairings work, but also why it is that they don't tend to happen that often, why it is that anxious and avoidant people tend to gravitate towards one another rather than sticking to their own kind. So that's what I'm going to be talking about today. Before I dive into that, a couple of quick announcements. The first is a celebration.
0:02:33.12 → 0:03:04.42
I forgot to mention this on the show last week or the week before when it happened, but we recently crossed over a million downloads for the show in less than a year since starting the podcast. I think it's about a week or so until the podcast turns one. So to have crossed over a million downloads in less than a year is really incredible. And I'm just so grateful to all of you. Whether you're a new listener or you've been here since the start, I am so proud of this show and what it's become and continues to evolve into.
0:03:04.55 → 0:03:35.81
And none of that would be possible without your support. So to anyone who has listened or left a review or a rating, or shared it with someone in your life, or shared it on social media, I'm so immensely grateful and thankful for you and for your ongoing support. So from the bottom of my heart, sending you so much love and gratitude. The second quick announcement is just to share. If you listened to the episode earlier in the week, you may have heard me speak about my Homecoming Mastermind programme, which is now open for applications.
0:03:35.99 → 0:04:23.36
The next round of the programme starts in July, so it's still a little bit away, but I'm offering an early bird rate for those who sign up before the end of the month. And I've already had five or six amazing applications in the last couple of days, so it's already shaving up to be a beautiful collection of women. This is a six month programme with me. We meet every week on Zoom and we have a community channel between calls. So if you are looking to work with me intimately as well as forging beautiful connections with others who are on the same path, who are doing this work, who are showing up in the mess and being beautifully brave and courageous in facing all of the parts of us that are sometimes uncomfortable to face.
0:04:24.05 → 0:05:01.95
I would love for you to apply the link to that is in the show notes. I realise that that probably is only relevant to a tiny fraction of you listening, as it is my highest level programme and it is a big commitment, so I won't speak too much more about it. But just if that feels like you and you're feeling the pull, you can find all of that via my website and I would love to receive your application. Finally, just to share today's featured review, which is I feel like I could indeed, I often do listen to these episodes on repeat. I feel like Steph is spot on with all of her explanations and I found myself nodding along, saying yes, yes to myself throughout the episodes.
0:05:02.05 → 0:05:30.28
I also appreciate that Steph doesn't have black and white opinions on matters and allows space for us listeners to fill in the blanks. Thank you so much for your beautiful review. I really appreciate the kind words. If that was yours, please send an email to podcast@stephanierig.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my Master classes. Okay, let's dive into this conversation around can a relationship between two anxiously attached people, or two avoidant people, for that matter, work?
0:05:30.73 → 0:06:22.54
So I think it's important to say at the outset that in my view, any relationship in the abstract, in a hypothetical sense, can of course, work if we're willing to put in the work to make it so. So I would never be one to say, oh, no, that pairing will never work. I think that's just a bit blunt and unhelpful and untrue, right? There's so much individual variation and richness and messiness in between the lines of putting people into buckets and saying, oh, if you tend towards anxious attachment, you could never possibly be in a successful relationship with someone else of that same blueprint that just denies the immense complexity of all of us in our humanness. So I want to make that very clear at the outset.
0:06:22.57 → 0:06:55.95
What I'm going to talk about today is not to deny the possibility of this working in any individual case, right? But what I do want to speak to is why is it that anxiously attached people don't tend to be attracted to one another? They don't tend to end up in relationship with each other. And likewise, neither do avoidant people for the most part tend to be in relationship with each other. So I think taking almost a spiritual or metaphysical lens on this, relationships and systems tend to find balance, right?
0:06:56.15 → 0:07:40.08
We tend to find this yin and yang. There tends to be this equilibrium point where a relationship, it's that classic thing of opposites attract. And I think there is some truth in that. That two people who are very very similar in terms of all of their behaviours, their attachment wounds, their attachment drives, their origin stories tend not to be drawn to each other because our attachment behaviours develop in response to something, right? And what they develop in response to is what we almost grew around.
0:07:41.01 → 0:08:13.22
So because we're used to growing around that and we've been shaped by what we experienced, we tend to it's like a puzzle piece. We're looking for someone who fits that piece that is missing in our puzzle that we learn to grow around. That's probably an imperfect metaphor or visual, but I'm hoping that's starting to make sense. So to take it out of the abstract, if I am anxiously attached, if I am, I'll actually use myself as an example here. What did I learn?
0:08:13.40 → 0:08:28.58
I learned to be low maintenance, okay? I learned to be good. I learned not to cause a fuss. I learned to take care of other people really well. I learned to be very empathetic and attuned.
0:08:28.69 → 0:09:03.56
I learned to be a great peacekeeper or a peacemaker. I learned to be a mediator in conflict, right? These are all of the skills that I learned in my family system. And so with those being my skills, that being my puzzle piece, the puzzle piece of me, I am likely to gravitate towards someone who I can use those skills and strategies with. Someone who might have higher needs than me, someone who might need stabilising or in my perception, right?
0:09:03.61 → 0:09:43.58
Someone who I can take care of, someone who is higher maintenance or unavailable or whatever else. And I have to work hard to get their attention. I have to strive, I have to try and control the conditions of the environment in order to keep the ship afloat, all of these things, right? That is what I know, that is what I have been trained to do and that is what is familiar to me. So when we go out into the world as adults and we have these attachment wounds and the behaviours that grew from them, you can almost think of it as a seed.
0:09:43.69 → 0:10:39.32
And then all of the branches on the tree become our behaviours, our strategies that we know so well, that have become part of who and how we move around the world. We're looking for someone that fits in with that, that clicks in with that. And if we've got two anxiously attached people, then we've got two people who want to be the caretaker, two people who want to be the people pleaser, two people who are wanting to suppress their needs to take care of someone else's, two people who are hyper vigilant and on high alert and monitoring everything, right? Without much to monitor because the other person's doing the same and is suppressing their own stuff. So there just tends not to be this subconscious drive of like, oh, that's where I can make myself useful, that's where I can slot into that system and know my place in it.
0:10:39.77 → 0:11:27.83
So hopefully that's starting to give you a sense of why we tend not to gravitate towards someone with the same attachment style and pattern as us, because it doesn't tend to remind us of our initial blueprint of what love and connection looks and feels like. So with all of that being said, of course there will be circumstances where two anxiously attached people, or too avoidant leaning people, do end up in relationship with each other. But what tends to happen here and it comes back to this idea of we find our way to a balance point, right? It's unlikely that two people will stay at the same end of the spectrum when in relationship with each other because so much of this stuff is like call and response, right? It's so much of a dialogue, it's such a co created dynamic.
0:11:28.43 → 0:12:11.24
And so what tends to happen is that, say two anxiously attached people are in a relationship, one person will likely be more anxiously attached, right? One person will be more paranoid, one person will be more clingy to use that word. One person will be more invested, one person will be more stressed out by any sort of distance or uncertainty, one person will require more reassurance. And what that tends to elicit in the other person, who might, in other circumstances lean more anxious. They will typically, again, I'm speaking in very general terms here, because I'm not going to tell you this is what will exactly happen in your relationship.
0:12:11.69 → 0:12:48.09
What will typically happen is they will start to exhibit more avoidant behaviours, they'll start to push some of that away. When that anxious energy gets really extreme, they will start to pull back and they will start to withdraw. They'll start to become overwhelmed by the intensity of the other person's anxiety and so on and so forth. So it finds its way to what ends up looking something like an anxious avoidant dynamic, right? And again reminding ourselves that attachment styles aren't fixed, they really are responsive to relational dynamics and relational patterns.
0:12:48.14 → 0:13:37.54
So it's entirely possible, and indeed not unlikely that too anxious people or too avoidant people are in relationship that you will start to exhibit more of an anxious avoidant dynamic, particularly in times of distress or relational tension or whatever else you'll find your way to aversion an expression of that dynamic and that pattern, even though you might have previously, in other relationships, both been more inclined towards one end of the spectrum or the other. And the same goes. People often ask me could a secure person become anxious if they were in relationship with someone who was extremely avoidant? Or could a secure person become avoidant if they were in relationship with someone who was extremely anxious? And the answer is yes, absolutely.
0:13:39.11 → 0:14:34.61
Some behaviours extreme avoidance can create anxiety. Extreme inconsistency, extreme dishonesty or intermittent reinforcement can create anxiety in someone who is otherwise not really prone to anxious attachment. I think the only qualifier to that, and I'm going a little off topic, but just to clarify, is the difference with a secure person is they might be less inclined to get in those relationships in the first place, or to let them get to the point of that extreme where they're really suffering as a result. People who are really secure tend to be pretty good at advocating for themselves and setting boundaries and walking away from things that are unhealthy. But that doesn't change the fact that notionally, yes, you could be primarily secure and then notice yourself slipping into more insecure patterns one way or the other in response to someone's behaviour.
0:14:36.97 → 0:15:24.48
I hope that that has answered the question to recap. Basically yes, a relationship between two anxiously attached people could work under the right conditions and the right people, but it tends not to happen very much of the time that they are attracted to each other in the first place. And if they are and do end up in a relationship, they will oftentimes find their way to more of an anxious avoidant, yin yang, opposites attract dynamic, which tends to keep the relationship in balance a little more, rather than both people being at one end of the spectrum or the other over the long term. If you've enjoyed this episode and found that helpful, please do leave a five star rating or a review if you're listening on Apple podcasts. As I said, it really does help so much.
0:15:24.53 → 0:15:35.82
And thank you again for helping me reach over a million downloads. I'm so grateful for you and I look forward to seeing you next week. Thanks guys. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment.
0:15:35.93 → 0:15:54.94
If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
"How to deal with an all-consuming fear that my partner will cheat on me?"
In today's Q&A episode, I'm answering the question of how to navigate an all-consuming fear & paranoia around a partner cheating - particularly in circumstances where that fear is seemingly unwarranted.
In today's Q&A episode, I'm answering the question of how to navigate an all-consuming fear & paranoia around a partner cheating - particularly in circumstances where that fear is seemingly unwarranted.
WHAT WE COVER:
the importance of nervous system regulation when we experience intense fear & paranoia
when to talk to a partner about our fears
the link between fear of cheating and low self-worth
a liberating truth about control in relationships
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Apply for my 6-month Homecoming Mastermind
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:00.41 → 0:00:38.24
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship coach Stephanie Rigg, and I'm really glad you're here. You hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's Q and A episode is all about navigating paranoia about a partner cheating.
0:00:38.38 → 0:01:30.26
So the specific question that I'm answering is one that I got on Instagram and it was how do I navigate paranoia and all consuming fear of cheating, even when there's no warranted situation at hand? So if you are someone who really struggles with the fear of infidelity and all of the associated behaviours that can spring from that paranoia overthinking control. Playing detective, maybe snooping, struggling to trust your partner, really struggling with any sort of distance between you, because you tend to fill in the blanks and assume that the moment they're out of sight, they're going to be doing something in breach of the agreements of your relationship. All of these things can flow from that paranoia about a partner cheating. And so if that's something that you experience at the moment or you have in the past, you know that that's something you struggle with.
0:01:30.39 → 0:02:21.17
Today's episode should be really helpful for you in understanding that piece of you a little more. I think that for me to say that I can solve that for you in a 15 minutes episode would be misleading because there's usually a lot of stuff wrapped up in it. But I suppose the way I frame it is probably as you do the broader work of healing and becoming more secure in yourself, of building your self worth then your fear around things like infidelity and the paranoia and the need to control will probably organically soften because as we'll talk about that stuff usually springs from extremely low self worth and low self esteem and the associated fears that can come with that. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. Before I dive into that, a couple of quick announcements.
0:02:21.33 → 0:02:41.51
Today is the last day to join this round of healing anxious attachment. At the time of recording, we have just over 300 people who've signed up in the last couple of weeks. So it's really, really amazing. I'm so excited for all of those people who've already dived in. So when you sign up, you get instant access to the first module and then each module after that will be released weekly from your start date.
0:02:41.60 → 0:03:20.24
So it's an eight module course, an eight week course, although you do get lifetime access to all of the materials. You also get to come to two live Q and A calls with me. That might sound a little weird given I just told you there's 300 people who've signed up, but in the past we've not had more than 30ish people on a call. The reality is most people don't turn up live. So if it's anything like previous cohorts, which were of a similar size, you do still get access to me and have the opportunity to ask me a question and have me directly speak to your situation and give you some individual coaching within that group forum.
0:03:20.35 → 0:03:52.39
So, as I said, today is the last day to join. There is an extended payment plan so you can get started for as little as $97 on a six month payment plan. The link to that is in the show notes, and I probably won't be running the course until the latter half of the year. I haven't set a date for that yet, but if it's something that you've been considering, I do really encourage you to cheque it out and sign up because there is no time like the present to get started on this work. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is I really love this one.
0:03:52.54 → 0:04:08.74
Stephanie's teaching on attachment and relationships has settled deep in my heart. She brings a beautiful mix of knowledge, wisdom, experience, compassion and forthrightness that speaks the truth in a loving but firm manner. I highly recommend all of her podcasts. Thank you for that beautiful review. As I said, I really loved that one when I read it.
0:04:08.84 → 0:04:44.09
If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephaniereg.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my master classes as a way to say thank you. Okay, so let's dive into this conversation around paranoia, jealousy, all consuming fear about a partner cheating. Now, you might recall that in the original question that someone asked, they said, it's an unwarranted fear. There's nothing currently happening that would justify this fear of mine. And I think that that's an important qualifier at the outset.
0:04:44.11 → 0:05:27.09
And I'm always minded to offer this caveat, because oftentimes I hear from people who really struggle with jealousy and they blame themselves for that. They say, what's wrong with me? I'm so paranoid, I'm so crazy, I'm so jealous. And then they tell me a little more about the situation, and my response is, well, of course you feel that way, because there are things going on there that would make anyone feel crazy and paranoid and jealous. So I think that that's an important footnote to this discussion at the outset is that when we're talking about paranoia, trust issues, jealousy, we want to make sure that we're not almost like gaslighting ourselves or making ourselves out.
0:05:27.13 → 0:06:01.59
To be the crazy one, the unhinged one, the unstable one, when there are things that are sort of patently not okay or would not be okay. For the vast majority of people in monogamous relationships or non monogamous relationships where there are clear boundaries that are being crossed. So that might be true in the current sense, but also if there has been previous infidelity within the relationship. Again, give yourself some grace because that's not something that's easy to just get over and draw a line under. The past is in the past, and I'm not going to have those feelings come up again.
0:06:01.68 → 0:06:39.18
That's a very normal and understandable way to respond to betrayal infidelity some sort of breach of trust. And even if that wasn't in the current relationship, if that has been in your past, then your body remembers that and your protective mechanisms, your protective parts, their whole job is to look out for similarities of things that happened in your past that were painful or frightening and try to protect you against that. So if there's anything that looks even vaguely similar to something that happened in the past, you're going to get the alarm bells ringing. That's how your system works. Okay?
0:06:39.55 → 0:07:25.33
So let's just be somewhat kind to ourselves around what we're bringing to relationships in terms of what might have happened in our past that would justify us feeling a certain way. With all of that being said, I think we can acknowledge and agree that there are circumstances where our reaction, our response doesn't match what's really happening. And that can feel extremely frustrating and scary and destabilising. And we can feel like we're almost possessed by this demonic part that is behaving in a way. It's almost like we can watch ourselves in slow motion and go, I'm being a bit crazy here, but I feel powerless to stop it because I'm so scared, I'm so panicked about this.
0:07:25.50 → 0:08:02.93
And so I think a really good starting point if you listened to the episode earlier in the week with Sarah Baldwin on Understanding your Nervous system, I think the more literacy you have around your nervous system, the better equipped you will be to navigate things like all consuming fear, paranoia. And what you'll probably notice is a very sympathetic response to that, meaning a lot of activation, energy mobilisation, I have to do something, right? This sense of probably being really flooded with energy, heat, tingling, I've got to do something. I've got to find information. I've got to call them.
0:08:02.97 → 0:08:50.53
I've got to cheque on them, I've got to stalk them, whatever I've got to do. But it's like your body is propelling you into action to try and deal with this perceived threat. The more that you can locate yourself and your current experience in the states of your nervous system, the better equipped you will be to regulate and then go, okay, what's really happening here? Can I put on my clear glasses and see this situation for what it is, rather than looking at everything that's going on through this lens of extreme fear and dysregulation? So in summary, whenever you notice this and this might be something that happens acutely, so in certain situations, you have sudden bouts of paranoia, or maybe it's something that's kind of chronic.
0:08:50.61 → 0:09:46.85
But either way, when you notice that coming up prioritising regulation in your body. So maybe that's going for a run, maybe that's calling a friend, whatever you need to do to bring your body back into a level of regulation that's going to be a really responsible, I would say, first step in managing these emotions. I think that there is definitely scope to talk to a partner about this right now, depending on the state of your relationship, depending on how your communication is, depending on your partner's capacity. But I don't think it's something that you have to internalise and feel shame about and feel really alone in that experience. So if it's totally unwarranted and your partner has never done anything to your knowledge to breach trust, then you can say to them, I know that this is going to sound crazy, and I really want you to understand.
0:09:46.97 → 0:10:33.39
That this is not an accusation and it's not something that I'm saying you've done wrong. But I'm having these thoughts and feelings, and it's causing me a lot of stress. Having that awareness for yourself, what stories am I telling myself and where is that coming from and what do I need in order to feel safe in this? Letting your partner into the experience a bit can be quite relieving, but we just want to make sure that we're not doing it in a way that is dumping it on them and then making it their responsibility to reassure us and convince us that everything is okay. Because if we become reliant on them to create that safety for us, we're going to need just regular doses of reassurance from them in order to feel safe.
0:10:33.44 → 0:11:12.60
And if you're really anxiously attached, which I assume the person who is asking this question is that will never be enough. No amount of reassurance from them will be enough because it's just not actually meeting the need, right. If anything, it's perpetuating the pattern of I'm only safe if you convince me that I'm safe, rather than being able to create that for myself. So as I alluded to at the start, I think the bigger picture work on this. If we think about regulating our nervous system and having a conversation with our partner around what we're feeling and what we might need from them, or things that might help relationally.
0:11:12.63 → 0:11:48.81
If those are the two shorter term practical points to help you with this, the bigger picture solution is going to be building up your self worth. Because fear about a partner cheating or jealousy about a partner's exes anything like this is just a symptom of really low self worth, right? We're convinced that the second we turn our back, our partner is going to go find someone better than us that they like more, that they're more attracted to, that they want more. And that is terrifying, right? But it is just a symptom of I think that I am unworthy.
0:11:48.89 → 0:12:14.05
I think that I am not good enough. I think that I have very little to offer. I'm not attractive enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not funny enough, I'm not compelling enough as a partner and therefore I'm holding on to you by a thread. It feels like there's nothing substantive keeping you here and in relationship with me. I am convinced that you're going to leave me the first chance you get.
0:12:14.17 → 0:12:43.16
And so I'm extremely paranoid about you cheating on me. That is a low self worth story. That is a story that only takes root when we feel like we have nothing to offer, like we have no value to our partner. And while again there might be aspects of that that we can deal with relationally, the vast majority of that is your work. And that's not meant to lay blame on you.
0:12:43.18 → 0:13:14.60
It's meant to empower you to go wow, okay, this is an inside job, I've got some work to do. Where did I learn that I have to prove my worth and that I have to be perfect in order to be lovable and that I have to control someone and keep them so close because the second I let go, they're going to leave me. If I release my grip on them, they're going to run and find someone that they actually love. Where did I learn that? Where's that coming from in me?
0:13:14.73 → 0:13:43.55
What part of me needs comfort and reassurance and soothing that I can offer in order to change that story? And again, this is longer term work, right? This is the work of reprogramming our core wounds. But I think that I alluded to this last week in a different context on what to do when you're feeling stuck in your relationship. But the more that you can turn focus back onto yourself because paranoia about a partner cheating is so other focused, right?
0:13:43.59 → 0:14:12.08
That's a beautiful expression of the anxious attachment tendency to be obsessed with what our partner is doing and needing to control that in order to feel okay within ourselves. So the more that we can interrupt that expression of the pattern and instead go okay, what do I need? How can I stand on my own 2ft and be less hyper focused on what my partner is doing, right? And actually turn attention inward? And what do I need and what do I want to do?
0:14:12.12 → 0:14:47.52
And how can I make my life really full and rich and rewarding without that being tethered to the ups and downs of my relationship or whatever my partner might be doing or not doing? The last thing that I want to offer here. And this is a little bit more philosophical and for some people this will be very triggering, for others it will be very liberating. So just bear that in mind and if it doesn't work for you, leave it. The radical truth is that you cannot control your partner and if your partner wants to cheat on you, they will cheat on you.
0:14:47.59 → 0:15:34.00
Irrespective of whether you are on them like a hawk, they'll find a way. So put differently, no amount of control or manipulation or detective work or monitoring is going to be able to keep someone where they don't want to be. So in acknowledgment of that can we release the grip and trust? Right? Because we've either got a relationship that has no trust that is governed by control and monitoring and detective work and grip and clinging and fear and paranoia and all of these really heavy exhausting dynamics and even in that dynamic your partner could still cheat on you.
0:15:34.10 → 0:16:01.92
Your partner could leave you tomorrow, right? We can never control that. That's part of the intense vulnerability of relationships is that we cannot stop ourselves from getting hurt no matter how hard we try. So we could try, we could be on that hamster wheel of control and seeking to control and preempt and try and avoid the worst happening even though we ultimately can't. Or we could let go.
0:16:02.45 → 0:16:53.24
We could trust, we could create space, we could be with the discomfort of distance and uncertainty and not knowing and not being able to guarantee that your partner won't cheat on you because none of us can. And instead focus on building our self worth and building our resilience, building our capacity to experience discomfort and building the self trust of knowing that even if the worst happens, I will be okay. Because I have reallocated that energy that I was obsessing over what someone else is doing and instead directed that towards cultivating a stronger relationship with myself so that I learn to be my own anchor. I learn to be okay. And that is not to say that we're kind of tacitly or indirectly endorsing cheating or infidelity or mistrust or anything like that, right?
0:16:53.34 → 0:17:45.20
It's more to acknowledge that the control tactics don't actually work. If anything, they can probably sabotage a relationship by pushing someone away because none of us like to feel controlled, none of us like to feel like someone doesn't trust us. That really erodes emotional safety and intimacy. So put that way and of course easier said than done but that is part of the intense vulnerability of being in relationship and this work is wow, I don't own this person and I can't control what they're doing and I don't know what goes on in their head. So can I radically accept that and surrender into it rather than banging my head up against a wall and causing myself so much stress and tension and fear and anxiety in the process?
0:17:45.73 → 0:18:11.21
Okay, so I hope that that has given you something to think about. As I said, it's not one that I can give you a three step plan and then voila, it will be solved within a couple of days. It is really a symptom of the broader experience of anxious attachment of low self worth. It springs from that. It really does take root in that soil.
0:18:11.39 → 0:18:27.02
And that's okay, right? It's not something to shame ourselves about. It makes perfect sense. And you are so far from being alone in this experience. I've experienced this for sure, but I've also experienced the version where I've made peace with not being able to control someone.
0:18:27.07 → 0:19:11.24
And I can assure you that there's a lot of relief in that, even though it can feel vulnerable at times. So I hope that that's been helpful for the person who asked the question and anyone else listening, who struggles with paranoia, struggling to trust betrayal infidelity all of those fears, which are, as I said, very understandable and very common. If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a five star rating or a written review. If you're listening on Apple podcasts, it really does help so much. And a final reminder that if you are someone who struggles with anxious attachment and you're ready to make a change, today is the last day to sign up for my Healing Anxious Attachment programme.
0:19:11.37 → 0:19:19.44
The link is in the show notes and I would love to see you there. Thank you so much for joining me, everybody, and I will see you again next week. Take care.
0:19:21.57 → 0:19:43.62
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
Understanding Your Nervous System with Sarah Baldwin
In today's episode, I'm speaking with Sarah Baldwin - a Somatic Experiencing Practitioner and Trauma Coach who is trained in Polyvagal interventions and is on the training team at the Polyvagal Institute. Sarah specialises in somatic trauma healing, attachment work, parts and inner child work and nervous system regulation.
In today's episode, I'm speaking with Sarah Baldwin - a Somatic Experiencing Practitioner and Trauma Coach who is trained in Polyvagal interventions and is on the training team at the Polyvagal Institute.
Sarah specialises in somatic trauma healing, attachment work, parts and inner child work and nervous system regulation.
WHAT WE COVER:
why nervous system regulation is the missing piece in so much healing work
understanding the different states of your nervous system
the connection between attachment and nervous system regulation
how to distinguish between anxiety and intuition
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my signature 8-week course Healing Anxious Attachment
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:00.57 → 0:00:29.88
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship Coach Stephanie Rigg and I'm really glad you're here.
0:00:30.01 → 0:00:57.01
Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today is a very exciting and special episode as I am joined by Sarah Baldwin. If you don't know Sarah's work, sarah is a somatic experiencing practitioner and trauma coach. She's trained in polyvagal interventions and is on the training team at the Polyvagal Institute. She specialises in somatic, trauma healing, attachment work parts and inner child work and nervous system regulation.
0:00:57.51 → 0:01:31.91
So I'm sure that you can imagine from that introduction in that bio, you can understand why I'm so excited to have Sarah join us here today. We're going to be talking all about the role of the nervous system in influencing, shaping, regulating our emotional experience and how becoming more fluent in our nervous system can really support us to become more empowered in not only our relationships, but our life more broadly. So, Sarah, welcome. Thank you for joining me on the show. Thank you so much for having me.
0:01:31.95 → 0:01:52.12
It is so good to be here with you today and so good to be here with everyone listening. So we've got a lot of ground to cover. Let's dive straight in. I speak about nervous system regulation a little bit on the podcast. It's something that I cover in my online course around anxious attachment.
0:01:52.23 → 0:02:24.43
And to be very honest with you, when I first created that course and included a module on nervous system regulation, I was worried that people's eyes would glaze over, I'd lose people because it might not sound that sexy to people understanding our nervous system. I was always really pleasantly surprised that people came back and said, you know, wow, this, this changes everything. This is really the missing piece. And it is a paradigm shift. And that's certainly been my personal experience as well.
0:02:24.58 → 0:03:04.29
And so I'd love to hear from your perspective why this stuff matters, why people should care about their nervous system. Well, our nervous system, our autonomic nervous system specifically, it is responsible for creating our entire experience of how we perceive the world, ourselves, others. And our entire experience is a result of what's happening inside of this nervous system. And so first and foremost, that's really huge. If there's a system inside of us that has that kind of power over our lives, shouldn't we know about it?
0:03:04.38 → 0:04:13.80
And I say this a lot, but I think it's so fascinating that we learn about outer space and solar systems and black holes and so on and so forth and so many other things, but we are not taught about the system that resides inside of us. Not understanding this system essentially means that we are kind of like put in the backseat and it goes on cruise control and that means we're making choices behaviours and so on, and having choices behaviours, so on and so forth, that are not perhaps things that are of our choice but are of a survival response. What I like to say is that at any given moment there are six states within our autonomic nervous system that we can be residing in. And I think of that like imagine if you had six pairs of glasses that all had different coloured lenses, a rose coloured lens, a dark brown lens, a bright red lens that happened to have frenetic energy moving around in it, a beautiful clear lens. And at any given moment you have one of those lenses on how you are seeing everything, experiencing everything, is depicted by that lens.
0:04:13.91 → 0:04:45.96
And when I say everything, I really mean everything. Meaning our thoughts, our behaviour. So the actions we take, our feelings, things like feeling hopeful, curious, loved, loving, anxious, frustrated, worried, concerned, frozen, trapped, apathetic, depressed. All is dependent on this nervous system, the sensations we feel in our body. So sensations are things like feeling tension or feeling relaxed, feeling numb or feeling here.
0:04:46.09 → 0:05:21.48
All of those things are entirely decided upon by this nervous system. And not just that, but the way in which we connect with other human beings via attachment is directly related to what's happening in our nervous system. So it's really imperative that we understand this system within us because it is the answer to really unlocking the lives that we desire. It is the foundation of all healing. I can explain in a bit what I mean by that, but it's really foundational in our experience as a human being.
0:05:22.49 → 0:05:40.02
Thank you for that. I think it's also, in my experience, the answer to this question of like why am I like this? Or why does this keep happening? In that sense of none of this makes sense. It's like you kind of can step outside of that and go actually, a lot of this makes sense, maybe all of it makes sense.
0:05:40.20 → 0:06:18.69
And I think that that in and of itself can be a really powerful experience. Just to have someone tell you no, there's an explanation for this and there's a system behind it. And understanding that rather than feeling powerless and feeling that, we have all of these conflicting parts with different motives and taking us in different directions which might be very different to the direction that we ultimately want to go. Not understanding why we aren't where we want to be again, whether that's in work or our romantic relationships or anywhere else, our emotional state. Yeah.
0:06:18.73 → 0:07:23.10
So first I just want to say I have a complex trauma history myself and spent most of my life dysregulated and not knowing what was happening or why it was happening or how to change it, or why sometimes I felt okay and sometimes I didn't feel okay and sometimes I felt really not okay. And I didn't understand any of it. And not only that, but the traditional mental health model is set up in a way to make people feel as if something is wrong with them, using words like dysfunctional or maladaptation or treatment resistant anxiety or depression and so on and so forth. And I'm not at all saying that diagnoses can't be helpful, but when we look through a lens of there be or even something like insecure attachment styles, all of these are through lenses of there's something wrong with you and you're deficient and neuroscience and polyvagal theory, it shows us unequivocally that the opposite is true. There is absolutely nothing wrong with us if we are experiencing dysregulation of our nervous system.
0:07:23.15 → 0:07:40.86
In fact, everything is working exactly right. Our system is never confused. It is so incredibly, exquisitely powerful. And as someone who experienced the opposite for so long, it was so good to know that. And that's why I say all the time and have a programme called You Makes Sense.
0:07:40.96 → 0:08:03.61
And I'm writing a book with the title You Make Sense because it is so good to know that we make sense. And if we make sense, that means there's something we can do about it. So, just to explain this, which might be a really new term for a lot of you, your autonomic nervous system, like, what is that? What does that even mean? So within us, each of us, is this brilliant self protective system.
0:08:03.76 → 0:08:29.97
We all have one. In fact, every mammal has one. And any moment we are experiencing one of six places inside of this self protective system. So there are many members of this autonomic system that we have, like members of the team. And I liken it to a special ops team, not for any military affiliation, but because a special ops team in general is the best of the best.
0:08:30.04 → 0:08:47.67
It's very hard to be on a special ops team. And a special ops team has many members, all with very different roles. They don't all have the same role, which is important because there's going to be different things that we need done on the team. Our autonomic nervous system is the same. It is the best of the best.
0:08:47.74 → 0:09:11.61
It is the strongest system within you. Parts of it are 500 million years old and every member has a different job. But they have one mission, just like a special ops team, one primary purpose. And that primary purpose is to keep you safe and alive at all costs. It loves you so much, it will do whatever it takes to make sure that you are alive and okay.
0:09:11.81 → 0:09:36.72
And it does that in the form of Dysregulation. And I'll explain what that is in a second. So the first line of defence, or the first special ops team member, is you can think of as our threat detector. So imagine it standing out in front of you and its whole job is to look out into the world and look inside of you to see is that safe, dangerous or life threatening? Safe, dangerous or life threatening.
0:09:36.78 → 0:10:04.37
And here's the thing. For anyone listening who has felt like you are broken, like you are beyond help, like something is wrong with you, I hope in this episode that you are able to see that. Science says that couldn't be further from the truth, my friend. Because this threat detector, every millisecond of your entire life, every millisecond which is really fast, everyone, it has been looking out into the world from the moment you came into this world saying is that safe, dangerous or life threatening? Is that safe, dangerous or life threatening?
0:10:04.39 → 0:10:16.83
Is that safe, dangerous or life threatening? Is that safe, dangerously threatening? It's doing it right now wherever you are in the world listening to this episode. And that first of all talk about not weak, right? That is really strong.
0:10:17.03 → 0:10:42.26
It also looks internally, which is called interception neuroception. That coin is termed by Stephen Porges is its ability to look outside of us. So you might be saying, well, how does it decide what is safe, dangerous or life threatening? Well, it looks to a database of past information that is inside of each of us. Think of it like if you have your own personal database and inside your own database is every lived experience you've ever had.
0:10:42.36 → 0:11:23.69
You don't have to remember it, it's in the database. And that means the really yummy, wonderful, amazing things are in there. Like the birth of your child, or a wonderful vacation, or laughing with friends, or a wonderful moment family. The not so good experiences like being bullied in school, or a medical procedure that did not go well, or not being heard, seen or known, or the life threatening experiences like neglect, or abuse, or emotional abuse, or racism or sexism or colonialization or whatever kind of traumas you might have experienced, all of them are in there. Not only that, we also have our ancestors experiences, our parents experiences in there.
0:11:23.76 → 0:11:45.50
Unresolved trauma. That's the concept of epigenetics in there as well. So when my threat detector is looking out into the world, like right now I'm looking outside of my office in Los Angeles, California, there's a beautiful tree. And immediately when I looked at the tree, I felt something in my body that said it's nice. I noticed like a smile come on my face and I noticed it felt good.
0:11:45.63 --> 0:12:09.96
The reason being is because in my database there's lots of information of I grew up in the middle of the woods and my home wasn't safe, but the woods were really safe. So anytime I see a tree, my threat detector says that's safe. Now, if let's say I had caregivers whom I was never good enough with and they always, every time I brought a report card home, it was never enough. It was never enough. It was never enough.
0:12:10.01 → 0:12:23.79
For example, let's say you have a boss who says, hey, who's a lovely boss? So nice. They're not like your parents who were so hypercritical and unkind to you. They say, hey, we have to do your quarterly review. Well, guess what happens?
0:12:23.86 → 0:12:39.64
The threat detector says, whoa, we have data about that not being safe. We're going to feel like we're not good enough. We're small. We're also like reminding us of our younger parts, and that's not safe. And so here's what your threat detector does in a millisecond.
0:12:39.67 → 0:13:02.87
It says, what did we need to do back then to maintain safety? And we know you maintain safety because you're here now. And it says, we're going to do the same thing now. That was the right thing. So the threat detector calls in one of six Special Ops team members to do the trick to protect you or to let you be in safety at any given moment.
0:13:02.91 → 0:13:19.32
So let's say let's go to the example of the boss. So your system says, whoa, that's dangerous, but I think we can do something about it. It's dangerous, but not life threatening. Meaning I think we might be able to fight this thing or flee this thing. So in a millisecond, it calls in something called your sympathetic nervous system.
0:13:19.42 → 0:13:38.70
That's a team member of your Special Ops team. So imagine that you had your hands closed in front of you. It's almost like it's like a door closing you off from the external world. And that's what it's like when our sympathetic nervous system or any state of self protection is protecting us. It's blocking us from the bad thing.
0:13:38.88 → 0:13:57.51
And it also the crux of that is it keeps out the things that we desire. So if we're finding ourselves stuck in our lives, that's a clue. I might have a Special Ops team member standing in front of me. So sympathetic is all about the doing. And I'm just going to name some things so folks can hear what that's like, because a lot of you might really know this state.
0:13:57.63 → 0:14:08.18
So let's say a boss is saying, hey, we have to have that talk. And all of a sudden, neuroception threat detector says, hey, that's not safe. Sympathetic, come in. Sympathetic comes in in a millisecond. All of a sudden I feel anxious.
0:14:08.24 → 0:14:13.63
I feel concerned. My heart rate increases. I have racing thoughts like, wait, did I do something wrong? I don't know. Did I not?
0:14:13.67 → 0:14:30.91
I left work 15 minutes early last week and I don't know if I told mine I left work 15 minutes early last week and wait, I don't know did I get the assignments done that I said I was going to do? And all of a sudden I'm sweating and I feel tension in my body and there's tension in my jaw. All of a sudden, my jaw is tight, my neck is tight, my shoulders are up to my face, my ears. Rather, I have tunnel vision. I can't focus on anything else.
0:14:30.95 → 0:14:43.40
I have butterflies in my stomach. I feel like I can't digest food or I'm going to throw up. And there's so much energy in my body, you can probably hear that in my voices. I'm putting this on for you. That's called your sympathetic nervous system and all about the doing.
0:14:43.53 → 0:15:03.56
And we want that system. It's really evolutionarily. A wonderful system to have. For example, just to give you an evolutionary response, or example, let's say a lion was chasing me. My system, my threat detector would say, hey, I think we can do something about this run and get away.
0:15:03.74 → 0:15:33.24
So when we're here, here's what I want listeners to know. What is so extraordinary is this sympathetic system talks to every organ in your body and essentially says not just organ, but chemical release, hormonal release, and says we need everybody to get on the memo of self protection right now because we love this person so much, we need to make sure they're safe. So what happens is your immune system, your system says, do we need our immune system right now if we're running from a theoretical lion? Absolutely not. That shuts down.
0:15:33.29 → 0:15:41.15
Do we need our GI tract functioning properly and digesting food? No way. Shut that down. We don't need that functioning fully. We'll shut it down just to function minimally.
0:15:41.25 → 0:15:53.82
Hey, cortisol and adrenaline. We need you to hike up so that we can sprint away as fast as we possibly can. Thinking brain, prefrontal cortex. Do we need to think and rationalise learn a new language if we're running from a lion? No way.
0:15:53.92 → 0:16:11.18
Liver. Do we need to detoxify properly? No. So all of that extra energy goes to increasing our heart rate, increasing our overall energy in our body so that we can sprint or flee the thing as fast as possible. So this is a brilliant self protective response.
0:16:11.21 → 0:16:34.03
It is one that a lot of people find themselves in. Now, that's not the only self protective response. We have two others. The other is let's imagine the theoretical lion that I just described is no longer, I don't know, 300 yards away, it's 5ft away or a yard away. It's very close.
0:16:34.18 → 0:16:53.77
And so what the threat detector says is it says, woof, this has gotten more dangerous than I thought it was going to be. And team Sympathetic, who's all been about mobilising, running and running, running, you weren't able to properly or able to do. You did your best, but you couldn't get us away from the threat. Not your fault. You did your best that you could.
0:16:53.94 → 0:17:22.71
What I'm going to do is I'm going to call in our most extreme form of self protection called our dorsal vagal complex. Now, this is a different state. Remember I said there's six states, this is the second state or another one of the six states. Imagine it standing in front of you guarding you now, this state's job, and I think this is so beautiful. It comes online when our system is saying, my love, I don't think that I can fight this thing for you.
0:17:22.88 → 0:17:40.33
I can't get rid of it and I can't make it stop. But what I can do is help you to leave your body so that you don't have to feel the perpetual pain of what we can't make go away. When I learned that, I thought, wow, if this is not a loving system, I don't know. It is. It has never let us down.
0:17:40.42 → 0:18:04.07
When other people may have let us down. Your nervous system never ever has, my friend. And so every the beautiful thing is every mammal actually has the ability to access this dorsal system. And for example, the impala that's going to be eaten by the lion. Its system lovingly says, my dear, I can't make this stop, but I can help you leave your body so you don't have to feel the pain of this.
0:18:04.19 → 0:18:25.44
And I just think like wow, we are amazing beings. Like wow, that is so cool. And I'm saying that everyone is someone who spent a couple of decades in this state of dorsal, not in my body. And there's a variety of experience here, so this might sound familiar. Some of this here's what it can look like, feeling apathetic, I don't care.
0:18:25.49 → 0:18:46.88
The things I used to, like, nothing seems enticing or good. Then I start to feel a little out of it and fuzzy. I have low energy. I'm feeling like I can't really think. I'm starting to notice that tasks like folding the laundry, answering emails, doing errands, like, oh, it feels impossible, I just can't do it.
0:18:46.90 → 0:18:58.58
I notice that I'm feeling almost like I'm going into outer space. Like I'm floating away. I feel numb. I can't really feel my body or I'm floating above my body. I feel hopeless.
0:18:58.72 → 0:19:06.55
I feel shame. Something's wrong with me. I can't I'm not capable. I'm not able. I feel depressed.
0:19:06.68 → 0:19:33.70
I feel dissociated levels, that there's levels of dissociation which can leaving your body, which can start by feeling like maybe even like oh, I took a sleeping pill, but I didn't. And I feel out of it and weird and kind of drugged, but I didn't take a drug. So what's going on? I'm just not here in my body. I can't feel my body or my face or all the way to I don't know who I am or I don't think the world is real or I don't remember how I got here today.
0:19:33.75 → 0:19:54.46
That's a very deep level of dissociation. And that is think of it like a bear going into hibernation. Everything is shutting down and everything inside of us shuts down too. All of those internal organs begin to shut down as well as our heart rate and so on and so forth. All to help us leave our body and so that we don't have to feel the perpetual pain of what's happening.
0:19:54.51 → 0:20:30.12
So if we experience neglect as a child, if we experienced work environments that were really toxic, that we felt like we couldn't leave, if we had home environments that were abusive, if we had parents who were fighting all the time, or alcoholics, or they were emotionally unwell themselves, or we were physically harmed, or we experienced so many other things that are life threatening. What occurs as we go to this state? And then there's one more state of dysregulation that we experience, and it's called freeze. Now, freeze is equal parts that sympathetic. The sympathetic is like think of it like a cheetah sprinting off.
0:20:30.17 → 0:20:48.69
It's so much energy, lots and lots of energy. And dorsal is the opposite, bare and hibernation. So we have two equal and opposite forces and they come together equally. One saying I have to, one saying I can't. And so when these forces come together, it creates something called tonic immobility.
0:20:48.79 → 0:21:02.65
So think about it, something that I have folks do. And if you're listening, try this out. Push with both hands equally. Like, put your hands together and push as hard as you can and keep doing that for a few seconds. I'm doing it right now with my hands in front of me.
0:21:02.74 → 0:21:14.37
I'm pushing them together as hard as I can. And what I'm noticing is it takes a lot of effort to do this. I'm feeling a little warm. My heart rate is increasing and I'm going to stop it. But I wanted you all to practise that.
0:21:14.41 → 0:21:25.30
Because when we're in freeze, people think, why didn't I do something? I just stood there. Why didn't I say something? Why didn't I fight back? Why didn't I?
0:21:25.32 → 0:21:34.09
Why didn't I? Why didn't I? Which creates a lot of shame. And what I want you to know is when you're in freeze, your system is doing so much. It takes a lot of energy to be here.
0:21:34.21 → 0:21:53.50
To follow the animal analogy, it's like a deer in headlights. So what it's like is all this energy inside, but I'm frozen, so I'm trapped in it. A couple of simple examples of what that can look like. Let's say you want to step towards something in your life. You want to start a business, and you're like, I really need to start it.
0:21:53.52 → 0:22:03.95
And I feel behind and I really need to get going. And you sit at your computer and you're like, I have 75 million things that I want to start and do. I start with hiring this person or this person or doing this or doing this. I mean, there's so many things to do. What did that person do when they started their business?
0:22:03.99 → 0:22:10.66
I don't know. And then all of a sudden, I feel blank and overwhelmed and I'm like, I just need to go to bed. This is too much. I can't do this. I can't do this.
0:22:10.76 → 0:22:15.06
It's too much. No, but I need to do this. No, but I can't do this. No, but I need to do this. No, but I can't do it.
0:22:15.08 → 0:22:43.26
And then you're like find yourself organising your junk draw for the 12th time because you just can't seem to step towards the thing. But all you do is think about stepping towards the thing that you can't seem to step towards. That is a classic experience of being in this state of freeze. Simple example you get a text from someone that's kind of hard to read and you think I really need to respond back, but you're like yeah, I'll do that later, I really need to do it now, I'll do it later. And you think about doing it for 8 hours, but you don't actually do it and you're exhausted by that experience.
0:22:43.36 → 0:23:05.06
That is a self protective state of free. Those are the three states of Dysregulation in our nervous system. And again, when we're in those states, the only reason you are there is because your nervous system doesn't think you're safe. That's the only reason. Now you may be wondering well, I'm safe now why is it doing that?
0:23:05.16 → 0:23:48.76
And the reason it's doing that, if you do find yourself in safety, meaning like it's safe to start that business, it's safe to use my voice, it's safe to be seen, it's safe to be vulnerable, it's safe to take up space, it's safe to have desires or whatever. That's because your database has information about how that wasn't safe in the past. So every time you go to step towards something similar in your present life, the threat detector says that's not safe. And so part of understanding this nervous system, or why nervous system regulation is so important, is because if we have a database filled with experiences in the past where people weren't safe, being seen wasn't safe, belonging wasn't safe. Being in my body wasn't safe, being present wasn't safe and so on and so forth.
0:23:48.89 → 0:24:30.48
Anytime something similar happens in my current life, my nervous system via my threat detector is going to say that's not safe and an immediate occurrences. I experienced what's called Dysregulation or one of those three states of self protection. I just did a lot of talking, I could explain the state of regulation, but I hope that's beginning to make sense for folks of why we experience this. Thanks Sarah, I really appreciate all of that. And as you were talking, the thing that really struck me is that understanding that is such a portal to compassion both towards ourselves, but also to other people and particularly people who we might be in relationship with.
0:24:30.66 → 0:25:40.26
As you were describing the experience of that dorsal state, I couldn't help but think of that classic anxious avoidant dance and how for a lot of anxious people who spend a lot of time in that sympathetic I've got to do something, do something, do something very activated mobilised state. And those protective mechanisms of moving towards and if they are with a more avoidant leaning partner who tends towards more of a dorsal response of this I'm out of options. Just like how can I vacate? Because I feel kind of defenceless against this and how those responses can just be really at odds and from each person's perspective. The other person's response is such a cue for danger for the person in sympathetic who's desperate for engagement and connection via even if it's via conflict, the person whose system is taking them out, that feels really dangerous and so can just trigger an escalation.
0:25:40.40 → 0:26:26.02
But for the person who's endorsel, who feels like there's a lion coming towards them, it's just impossible. And so I think that it's so useful for people to understand not only their own system but to start to be more attuned to the cues in other people's systems and going, okay, what might be going on for them? How might they be experiencing me as well as what's going on in my system and what do I need? Yeah, it is so important to understand that. That's why I say I do a lot of somatic attachment work and the foundation of all of it that I quickly realised in my work around the nervous system is oh well, you can't do attachment work unless you're doing nervous system work.
0:26:26.20 → 0:27:05.07
The way that we attach is entirely based in our nervous system which is why for any listener who's read like for example, the book Attached, maybe it's the most famous one although I like John Bowlby's book, I mean, both are great but that's a little more dense. But anyway, you read a book and you're like oh, that you got an AHA moment. Ah, that makes sense. But it doesn't actually create any change in your life because that all in books are wonderful but they're cognitive meaning it's giving me understanding of things. But it's really important to understand about your nervous system and how you show up in your relationships is your nervous system is subcortical and that means it lives in your body, not in your thinking brain.
0:27:05.20 → 0:27:48.25
Your nervous system does not understand a verbal language because it doesn't reside where your verbal thinking, your prefrontal cortex, which is in your brain, resides. And this is why we can learn a lot of things but then it doesn't actually affect change in our lives. So the more that we can become get in the driver's seat of our nervous system, the more it changes everything. And what you mentioned about having compassion for or at the very least understanding for what's happening in other people's systems is so imperative because just to quickly name for listeners, here how intricate this system is that I just described. Remember, we all have a database, so what happens when we come into relational dynamics?
0:27:48.30 → 0:27:56.98
A lot of people have had this experience where you meet someone and you're like I feel like. I've known them forever. I'm so drawn to them. I am so attracted to them. I don't know why.
0:27:57.03 → 0:28:15.87
I feel like, how could I possibly live life without them, even though you've only known them for three weeks. And here is why. There's an actual reason for that. Remember, we all have a database, right? And the threat detector's job, it's really its job is to not only suss out danger for you, but it's to say, what does this remind me of?
0:28:15.94 → 0:28:24.60
That's what it's doing all the time. What does this tree remind me of? What does Sarah's voice remind me of? What does the sun right now remind me of? What does this man remind me of?
0:28:24.62 → 0:28:37.92
This woman, this person? And so on and so forth. Anyway, so it looks to the database. So when it comes to love and relationships, guess what it looks to first? It looks to the database and says, what intel do we have on that?
0:28:38.02 → 0:29:02.09
And it looks to your earliest childhood experiences and says, that's the information we have on what love is. Okay? Love is the experience of let's say I'm anxiously attached. My experience of love is I'm just making a possibility up. I have a caregiver who is preoccupied with working all the time or they are not fully available to see me.
0:29:02.24 --> 0:29:11.91
That's what love is. So that's all our system knows. That's what love is. So guess what happens? I meet this person and they are what we would call the word workaholic.
0:29:11.96 → 0:29:48.02
They are really preoccupied with their work. And so my system says, oh, I feel like I've known you forever. I'm so drawn to you because neuroception is saying, you remind me of my childhood and that is what love is. Now, the other person's, Neuroceptive response says, I've got a database too, and in it I have let's say I had a caregiver who was not regulated themselves and whose young parts were looking for me to help them. Maybe the relational dynamic was my mother was looking for me to emotionally soothe her instead of looking to her partner.
0:29:48.16 → 0:29:55.47
And so that's what I have on this database. And she was really anxious a lot. And then I meet you. Whoa. That's what I know.
0:29:55.62 → 0:30:23.98
That is what I'm drawn to. So now we have one person who's avoidant, one person who is anxiously attached coming together, which is the most common combination. Why are they coming together, though, based on what's in that database? That's the whole thing. So we come together and guess what transpires when an occurrence happens, like, let's say an argument occurs, my threat detector says, what intel do I have on arguments?
0:30:24.01 → 0:30:43.13
I'll give another example. The avoidant person says, whoa, I have information about how people harm you. People hurt you. They either emotionally hurt you or they physically hurt you. And so what I learned to do as a child was become an island because there was no one to help me or the people that were there to help me were dangerous.
0:30:43.25 → 0:31:00.93
And so when a fight occurs, my system I'm not doing that. My system takes over like autopilot, and it says, my love, I have to pull you to the island. People aren't safe. And this is reminding me of that. And in a millisecond, we're pulled to that island where we retreat, we shut off.
0:31:01.00 → 0:31:25.85
We feel like we just have to get away now. The anxiously attached person says, whoa, I have intel on being abandoned as a child. And so my system says, I need to do whatever I can to make you stay. And all of a sudden, my sympathetic system comes in and says, what did I need to do back then? Oh, disregard your own needs, disregard your own feelings, say things, just be good, and maybe we can get them to come back.
0:31:25.92 → 0:31:56.19
So we say things like, oh, it doesn't matter, I don't even care. Let's just come back into connection, because I just need us to be connected in order for me to be okay. And in that experience, I call it the island and the speedboat. So the more I go to my island, the more I get in my speedboat and drive to your island, which makes me want to dig a hole in my island and go underneath the island to get away from you, and I want to get even closer to you. And we're in this dynamic which is all rooted in Dysregulation and what's happening in those receptacles.
0:31:56.32 → 0:32:15.13
And not only that, but when this occurs, we essentially are transported back to younger parts of ourselves. So we're no longer in that adult self. It's whatever was in that receptacle. Our threat detector says, this reminds me I was eight. So it's as if we time travel back to being eight.
0:32:15.28 → 0:32:33.95
And this is why, if you've ever been in a situation where you feel like, small, scared, out of control in a relationship, and then later when you feel better, you think, I can't believe I did that. I can't believe I said that. What was going on? Well, it wasn't you. It was your nervous system and a younger part of you.
0:32:34.07 → 0:33:00.35
And so the foundation of our relational experiences, really the foundation of everything, is this nervous system, because that's what's driving how we show up in our relational dynamics. And the more to your point is we can see, oh, them going to their island actually has nothing to do with me. It has to do with what happened to them in the past. And going to that island in the past was the right choice. It was the best choice that they could possibly find.
0:33:00.44 → 0:33:31.28
But that doesn't mean they don't care about me, love me, and so on and so forth. Or this person that's coming towards me doesn't want to control me. They want to feel in control because it can be experienced as that person wants to control me? No, it's because they feel so out of control inside that's why that's occurring, that those behavioural responses. So the more we can see that, the more that it decreases or at least doesn't increase the activation we feel about like wow, you don't care about me or you are trying to suffocate me or whatever.
0:33:31.41 → 0:34:20.58
We can see where it's actually rooted in and not only that, but can say hey, we need to pause and regulate our nervous systems before trying to have this conversation because otherwise we won't even be able to hear each other when we're dysregulated. Our thinking brain isn't working, which is why it feels like you're going round and round in a conversation without hearing each other because you're not hearing each other when you're dysregulating. Yeah, I love that. And I think the image of the speedboat and the island will really resonate with people for me. I've done a lot of work on it, but certainly Lean anxious, and the urgency when you're needing to reach someone that feels like they're slipping away and the sense of emotional abandonment in those moments can feel.
0:34:21.43 → 0:35:16.84
I think the story that a lot of anxious people will relate to is how could you abandon me in this moment when I need you most, when I am escalated and emotional and I'm reaching for you? But it is that thing of the tendency to make the other person's behaviour about you when it really has very little to do with you. And I think that the more we can see that try and step into an observer kind of role, not only does that help us to make better decisions and to regulate and create the space to do that, but I think that for me, at least, even the act of pausing to go, oh, okay, look, I'm getting really activated. That in and of itself is settling to my system because it feels like you're less consumed by the experience and you're able to witness yourself in it a little more. I'd be curious to get your take on in that example.
0:35:17.45 → 0:35:57.23
What would you say to people who feel like they spin around in that cycle? Pretty reliably, which I think without the knowledge and the tools is likely where you will go if those are the patterns in your relationship. You mentioned pausing and that's certainly the advice that I give people is nothing good is going to come of that when one or both of you is dysregulated and likely if one of you is, the other will follow soon thereafter. So pausing I think is a really big one. I think again, for anxious people they may tell themselves the story of that's just giving the avoidant person what they want and what about me?
0:35:57.27 → 0:36:30.85
And so my advice is space with boundaries. So let's take a break for 30 minutes and then agree to come back. And I think that that is kind to both people's system. What would you sort of counsel people on how to manage those dynamics and how best to regulate their system so that they can have conversations, challenging conversations, in a safe way? Yeah, well, first I just want to validate for both parties, it feels like life or death because for a child, that when we're born, we don't have the ability to self regulate.
0:36:30.95 → 0:36:56.89
What that essentially means is it is not physically possible for a child to regulate themselves or calm themselves down when they are dysregulated. The crying it out method actually just brings a kid into dorsal. It doesn't actually regulate them. When a child is in that state of distress with no one there to help regulate them. What a child needs is someone who is in what's called their state of ventral.
0:36:56.94 → 0:37:36.91
So that's our state of regulation. Who picks the child up and doesn't get scared about the child's dysregulation, doesn't say, oh my gosh, you're just so scary, but instead holds them, maybe does something somatically like sways and pass them on the back. And what's called mirror neurons, the adult's nervous system, calms the child's nervous system down. Now, what we know in research around attachment shows is we needed that 30% of the time in order for us to have what's called a secure attachment, which means relationships are to distil it down, filled with relative ease. For us, we feel safe in them, we feel safe with distance and also closeness.
0:37:37.07 → 0:38:04.20
Now, for many of us, we did not get that. And so as a result, what transpires is therein lies the anxious attachment or avoidant or disorganised. So what occurs is when we have a rupture or an argument occur, it's as if we've time travelled to being that infant again. And so you used really interesting words like how could you do this to me? Or those weren't your exact words, but essentially, how could you pull away or do this to me when I need you most?
0:38:04.33 → 0:38:28.67
And what I want listeners, if you say you find yourself saying that that is a young part of you who is saying that to your caregiver, not to your partner. I know it seems like you're saying it to your partner, but where is that rooted in? It is rooted in your childhood. It actually has nothing to do with your caregiver. Not that we don't not and I'm not letting someone off the hook for just disappearing, but why is this here in the first place?
0:38:28.79 → 0:39:08.80
Because a young part of you is present in your body. And here's the thing, I think it's just maybe hard to hear, but really important for listeners to hear that there is no amount of an adult in our lives picking that young part of us up that will ever be enough. So if you're looking for your partner to change and be this really perfect partner, it still wouldn't be enough. My friend and the reason being is because only we can become what I call the primary parent to our young parts. But most people are looking for their partner to pick the young part up, rescue me, save me from this experience.
0:39:09.25 → 0:39:44.93
And it can be helpful for a little bit like a band aid, but it'll just come back again and again. And now I'm in a codependent dynamic. And what we can do, and what I want you to know that this can change, is the more you regulate your nervous system and you become what I call a competent protector. So the adult self, you've got the adult self of you present. What we can begin to do is when we notice this younger part showing up, I can do things to help them to regulate, just like I would with a scared kid, the same exact thing, so that I'm turning towards them and picking them up.
0:39:45.02 → 0:40:09.81
And then my partner can be what I call the secondary parent. So it's not that we don't want our partners help, but not that we're looking for them to rescue us anymore, because they can't ever do it. It's not possible. And that creates a codependent dynamic. So what I would say is, in these dynamics, the work of someone who's anxiously attached is my job is to build my capacity for what's called self regulation.
0:40:10.47 → 0:40:36.98
Co regulation is connecting to other people. To regulate self regulation is learning that I can also regulate with me. And so what I want you to do is what's really important is we don't just practise this when we're in a fight, because that's like if I was a firefighter, but never practised the drills and just went into there's a fire and I had to figure out how to fight fire, I wouldn't be able to do that. They practise, right? So we need to practise when we're not experiencing arguments or fights.
0:40:37.04 → 0:41:06.33
And the practising of someone who's anxiously attached is I want to start seeing, can I do things that can bring my nervous system into regulation? So throughout the day, it might be something like maybe some humming or tapping or swaying or shaking or I'm going to go on a walk by myself. And I've got lots I'm sure you do, to Stephanie. Lots of therapeutic tools that I give folks that are somatic in nature. But there's different things we can do to show our nervous system, hey, I'm safe, and we do that ourselves.
0:41:06.46 → 0:41:35.11
So we want to build our capacity to do that, so that when we're in a relationship, we can tolerate space. And we know that regardless of what's happening in the relationship, I've got you little parts, I'm not going anywhere. So someone who is avoidant, your job is to practise coming off the island, that's not going to feel good at first. So that's called practising co regulation. And we want to do that outside of arguments, like, can I step towards closeness, can I step towards intimacy?
0:41:35.16 → 0:41:47.76
When someone says, how was your day? Instead of just saying it was fine, how was yours? Expand on that. How was your day? When someone says, hey, I want to share vulnerably or intimately with you, instead of saying, how can we do that later?
0:41:47.81 → 0:42:14.90
Can I lean into that a little bit? Or asking for help and so on and so forth, can I lean off the island going on a walk with a friend? And so on and so forth, all of that shows my system connection is safe. So that is what I would say the most important. That's what I focus on because otherwise I'm trying to put a fire out or put a bandaid on without ever practising or building my capacity, which means I'll never be able to change the dynamic.
0:42:14.96 → 0:42:41.50
So that is the most important. And then during the actual argument or experience of a rupture, what I recommend is, number one, remembering this is their nervous system, not them. This is their nervous system right now. And a younger part of them is present, just like a younger part of me is present. And that when you can talk about that, when you're both regulated like, hey, what do you notice happens for you?
0:42:41.60 → 0:43:02.24
And here's what happens for me. And even having a code word, like it doesn't have to be even a big code word. It just could be a phrase like, I think we're both no longer in regulation, or I'm in my speedboat, are you on your island? Or whatever, you can use terms like that, that clue you into. We're both dysregulated.
0:43:02.35 → 0:43:36.83
And so what's necessary is and what I recommend is the avoidant person who needs to go to the island. Otherwise, if they try to force themselves to stay, they're just going to become more shut down. And so them saying and having a word that they say or a phrase they say, I love you and I need to go to the island right now so that I can get myself back. So what I'm doing is I'm extending to you a connection. I love you and I need to go to my island and let's Cheque in in 20 minutes or whatever and see if we can talk about it now.
0:43:36.92 → 0:44:12.41
And the sympathetic or anxiously attached person, your job, which is very important, is to see what can I do to tolerate the space and needed for you to begin to be able to tolerate that space. And how can I comfort these young parts of me which can include connecting with other people as well during that time. And then I just like to say, if the 20 minutes, if the avoidant person is still not back online and regulated, then we want to say, okay, can we try again in 20 minutes? We don't want to say we have to now. So sympathetic person is probably going to say no, but you said 20 minutes.
0:44:12.53 → 0:44:35.89
And the problem with that is if our nervous systems don't have choice, we need choice, it creates Dysregulation. So if we feel like we're trapped in a cage or we're cornered, we will just become Dysregulated. So that we need to have that consistent checking in, but not that like you have to now because that will just increase Dysregulation too. Thank you for that. I love what you say.
0:44:35.93 → 0:45:10.27
And that point I think is really important, that for an anxious person, you're not regulating for them, you're regulating for you. And I think that particularly when the experience or the story might be, what do I need? I need connection with them. That's a quite disempowering place to live, right? To not be able to give ourselves any of that, to be able to self source a sense of safety, to be solely reliant on, I have to tether to this person, otherwise I'm not going to be okay.
0:45:10.47 → 0:45:46.02
And so I think that as you describe being able to be with the discomfort of space and increasing our capacity to hold that, that's not just giving them what they want. That is really important work for you and building your capacity. Yeah, it is the work for someone. It is the most important thing. And that's the beautiful thing I think about all healing work is something one of my mentors, Peter Levine, says, the creator of somatic experiencing.
0:45:46.13 → 0:46:06.20
He says it's never too late to have the childhood we deserve. There's other folks who say similar sayings, but what that really means is the more I do trauma work and somatic work, the more it's very clear to me time is not linear. We are travelling time all the time, anytime you're activated. And it doesn't have to do with there's not present danger in your life. That's a clue.
0:46:06.23 → 0:46:34.74
You've travelled time. In our relationships, we're travelling to the past all the time. So if we can travel back there, meaning I feel like I'm eight years old again or two years old again, then we can also bring our adult selves back to those young parts and finally give them what our caregivers couldn't give them. And when that occurs, my friend, when that happens, we imprint a new childhood experience. And as a result of that, we get what I call an internal secure attachment.
0:46:34.93 → 0:47:04.72
Now my young parts no longer feel unsafe and they no longer are choosing partners or staying in relationships that don't really serve them because they're safe with me. So now I'm making choices in my relationship based on my truth, instead of making choices or with partners based on survival. And it makes everything a whole heck of a lot easier and it all comes within. So yeah, that work is not for the other person, that is for you. Yeah, I love that.
0:47:04.74 → 0:47:31.31
And I think that emphasis on choice is so important. It's like when we're in fear, we feel like we don't have choice. It's like it's life or death, and I'm going to be trapped, and I'm going to be stuck. No matter where you sit on the spectrum, that tends to be the undertone of that experience and resourcing our systems and reminding ourselves we're not there anymore. We're here and now, and we have choice.
0:47:31.81 → 0:48:07.45
We have agency. It always feels like it's me or them. It's my way or their way, right or wrong, villain, victim. It's like, what are the million other possibilities that sit in between those extremes? And I think the more time we can spend in regulation, the more steps we can take towards that, the more those possibilities become available to us, and we can start taking steps towards those because I think that messy middle ground is really where healthy relationships live, rather than at battling between extremes.
0:48:08.11 → 0:48:20.43
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Beautifully said. So I would love to ask you just one more question before we wrap up, if you have time. Something that I get asked a lot is around self trust.
0:48:20.50 → 0:49:06.17
And for people who have really struggled in relationships in the past, perhaps they have really been hurt. That threat detector is very sensitive, and so people might go, okay, when I become really activated, I'm so convinced that there's something wrong, how do I know if that's my system legitimately warning me of a real threat or whether I'm being paranoid, I'm reacting to nothing. How do I know the difference? And what would be your advice for people in navigating that experience and how to respond to that? Well, when we are in that, our system is always going to think that whatever we are experiencing is true and based on what's happening presently.
0:49:06.25 → 0:49:29.44
And here's why. Because when, as I mentioned before, the threat detector, how that works. Like, let's say you haven't heard back from your partner, they're 30 minutes late to getting home, and you had a caregiver who had an affair at work, or even an ex partner who had an affair at work. And you know that your spouse is really fond of a coworker in a very, maybe appropriate way. But we're fond of people.
0:49:29.57 → 0:49:53.25
And all of a sudden, guess what your system does? It looks to the receptacle, and it says, that means they're having an affair and I can't trust them. And this is really bad. And in a millisecond, you're no longer going to be in the present moment thinking of your partner, but you're going to be with that ex partner that cheated on you, or you're going to be in that childhood with that caregiver who had multiple affairs and was never around. And so I'm not in the present moment anymore.
0:49:53.30 → 0:50:11.31
I am back in that experience. And if I asked you in those past experiences, hey, is this truly happening right now? You would say, yeah, it is happening because it was happening. And so that's what occurs when we're dysregulated. So we don't want to ask ourselves, what is my truth right now when we are in that heightened state of Dysregulation?
0:50:11.47 → 0:50:34.13
Instead, what I want you to do is say to yourself, my whole job right now is to get regulated. And I need to do we would need a lot more time to talk about how to regulate. But regulation is I like to say it's a game of show, not tell. We cannot talk our way into it. We have to show our nervous system that we are safe and we are in the present moment because it doesn't understand a verbal language.
0:50:34.18 → 0:50:59.42
Which is why if you've been anxious and you told yourself, just calm down or you're fine, doesn't help. But there are things we can do to regulate. And then when you're feeling more like you, which means you're regulated, you feel present here, capable, able, which might be later that day or the next day, I want you to ask yourself a simple thing and just say, did my reaction match the circumstance of what was happening? Did my reaction match the circumstance? Lovingly ask yourself that.
0:50:59.52 → 0:51:21.90
Not with like, talking yourself out of reality, but just curious. And if I said to myself, you know what, that level of panic didn't seem to match the 30 minutes, or my level of rage didn't seem to match the 30 minutes. Now doesn't let them off the hook. Feeling annoyed or frustrated would match the circumstance. But that level, did that match?
0:51:22.35 → 0:51:38.76
No. So then I want to ask myself, okay, what does this remind me of? If I think about this, have I ever felt this way before? Because that's clueing you into what this is predominantly actually about. If you say, oh, it feels like when I was a little kid, that's who's showing up.
0:51:38.78 → 0:52:04.40
That's what this is predominantly about. That's important because that's the part that needs your help. And then I want to ask yourself, okay, so based on this adult me, that's present now, what do I feel about what happened? Because that's going to tell you how much of the response is actually based in the present. And if you say, that's not okay, yeah, that really isn't okay to me, and I need to know what's going on more or I need to know where they are.
0:52:04.42 → 0:52:34.73
You can't just disappear when you said you're going to be home 30 minutes earlier. And then I can communicate. That need for myself is really helpful so that I can tease out, what's about the past? What's about the present? And then lastly, what we want to do with our adult selves is I invite folks like in that example infidelity to want you to write down, I call it an evidence journal, all the actual data you have of your partner being a safe person, that they're not like that partner in the past or that caregiver.
0:52:34.81 → 0:53:04.67
And I want you to go back to it and as you read it, I want you to feel it in your body, all the evidence you have of how they are different, which helps show your system in that database. They're different, they're different, they're different. So those are the exercises that I like to give folks, just basic ones that can help support when having that kind of experience. Thanks, Sarah. I'm sure that will be really helpful for people because I think in those moments, to have a level of an action plan can be really supportive.
0:53:04.85 → 0:53:37.68
Yeah, you're totally right. So important to have. Okay, well, Sarah, thank you so much for joining me. This has been incredibly helpful, informative, insightful. I have no doubt that for everyone listening, it's going to really offer some powerful reframes on understanding yourself, understanding others, and hopefully really empowering you to take steps towards greater self knowing and being able to build our capacity to be with our range of experiences.
0:53:37.74 → 0:53:55.94
And, as we've said, really step into the driver's seat of that, rather than feeling like we're at the mercy of an unruly horse that's bolted. So, Sarah, thank you so much. Where can people find you if they want to go deeper with you and your work and your programmes? Thank you. First of all, thank you so much for having me.
0:53:55.96 → 0:54:17.79
It's been such an honour to be here. And for anyone listening, I'm so glad we could spend this time together. You can find me@sarahbaldwincoaching.com, you can also find me on Instagram. I do lots of free teaching and events on there at Sarabcoaching. Those are the two places and you can find all of my courses and programmes in either place.
0:54:17.99 → 0:54:28.66
Amazing. And we will link all of that in the show notes for anyone who's interested. Sarah, thank you so much for joining me. Everyone who's listening, thank you so much for joining us. I'll see you again next time.
0:54:31.35 → 0:54:53.98
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
"I'm feeling stuck in my relationship and don't know what to do."
In this Q&A episode, I'm speaking to the common conundrum of what to do when you're feeling stuck in your relationship. This often happens when we've been trying for some time to make changes (or hoping that our partner will make changes), but we're just not seeing any progress. I'll share an unexpected way that you can shift out of low self-worth and hopelessness, and into a more empowered, self-confident state that will allow you to navigate whatever is happening in your relationship with clarity & trust.
In this Q&A episode, I'm speaking to the common conundrum of what to do when you're feeling stuck in your relationship.
This often happens when we've been trying for some time to make changes (or hoping that our partner will make changes), but we're just not seeing any progress. I'll share an unexpected way that you can shift out of low self-worth and hopelessness, and into a more empowered, self-confident state that will allow you to navigate whatever is happening in your relationship with clarity & trust.
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my signature 8-week course Healing Anxious Attachment
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:00.90 → 0:00:39.36
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship coach Stephanie Rigg, and I'm really glad you're here. You hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's episode is a Q and A episode and I'm going to be talking about what to do when you're feeling stuck in your relationship.
0:00:39.54 → 0:01:19.26
So this isn't in response to any one question, but it's in response to a lot of questions that are a variation on this theme that I get all the time from people. How do I know whether to keep trying in my relationship? What do I do if my partner is not interested in working through things? What are my options and how do I overcome this feeling of overwhelm and maybe even hopelessness? If you feel like there are issues in your relationship that are unresolved and you maybe feel like you're out of options, or you feel like you've tried lots of things, or you kind of just feel like you're banging.
0:01:19.29 → 0:01:53.68
Your head up against a brick wall trying to get something to change, trying to get your partner to be more engaged maybe your voice needs. But you're not getting any traction or any kind of lasting, sustained change in the right direction. What we can do. And of course, that's a complicated conversation and it's not one that I can give you in a 15 minutes episode. It's not that I can give you the solution for every situation, but this is going to be particularly geared towards anxiously attached people.
0:01:54.53 → 0:02:26.21
And it's going to offer you almost an invitation or a challenge for you that will allow you to at least take some action for yourself that feels fruitful and rewarding irrespective of what's going on in your relationship. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. Before I get into that, a couple of quick announcements. The first being that early bird enrollment for healing anxious attachment closes tomorrow. So that means you've got just over 24 hours to get in at the reduced price, which is $100 cheaper than the regular price.
0:02:26.30 → 0:03:08.67
I've also just added an extended payment plan which allows you to pay for the course over six months and means that you can get started right away for just $80, so hoping that that makes it accessible for as many people as possible. And as I said, the early bird pricing ends tomorrow, so in about 24 hours from when this goes live. So if you are interested in the programme, please do cheque it out via the link in the show notes or by going straight to my website. Stephanierig.com, I would love to have you in the programme. I think at last count, there's 210 or so people who've already signed up in the past few days, which is amazing.
0:03:08.76 → 0:03:31.38
So I'd love to have you in there. If you are someone who struggles with anxious attachment and you're looking to make some changes and get that support, you know where to find me. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is stephanie's podcast has been a true revelation for me. I've had so many AHA moments I've lost count. Stephanie delivers her knowledge and wisdom with such clarity, kindness and compassion.
0:03:31.49 → 0:03:41.28
Listening to her feels like a soft hug every time. I'm so grateful to have discovered her in this podcast. Thank you. Thank you for that beautiful review. I really appreciate it.
0:03:41.33 → 0:04:11.13
And I'm glad that you have the experience of feeling like you're getting a soft hug every time you listen. That's really nice to hear. If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierig.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my master classes as a way to say thank you. Okay, so let's dive into this discussion around what to do when you're feeling stuck in your relationship. So, as I said in the intro, this can encompass so many different things, right?
0:04:11.17 → 0:04:50.06
The content of the stuckness could be a vast array of situations and dynamics. But the common thread here that we're looking for is a sense of feeling. Like you've tried, feeling like you've expressed yourself, like you've asked for things, like you've had these conversations maybe several times, and you're just not seeing any kind of momentum or shifts relationally between you and your partner and you're feeling overwhelmed by that. And maybe to the point of questioning, is this ever going to get better? What more can I do?
0:04:50.51 → 0:05:23.57
And if it doesn't get better, how long do I wait to find out? And should I think about potentially ending this relationship? So this is a big conversation. Obviously it's pretty loaded and it's pretty heavy sometimes to be toying with those thoughts and emotions. And while I can't offer you, as I said, the answer in any kind of prescriptive way, because obviously it's deeply personal and contextual, my invitation for you or my challenge for you, if you are in this situation, is this.
0:05:23.64 → 0:05:58.84
And as I said, this is mainly for anxiously attached people for the next period of time. So maybe one month or three months. Become so focused on yourself. Now, that might be counterintuitive if you are relationally in this sticky, yucky place. And it's taking up so much of your time and energy thinking about the relationship, thinking about your partner, what they're doing or not doing, and being so scrutinising of their every move and looking at it through this lens of, is this in the right direction?
0:05:58.90 → 0:06:12.99
Are you taking action on the things that I wanted? Or are you ignoring my needs or whatever? We get so judgmental when we're in that place. I don't mean judgmental. I sort of mean that descriptively, right?
0:06:13.03 → 0:06:51.55
We are applying a lens of scrutiny to whatever's going on in our relationship when the stakes feel really high and when we're feeling really stuck because we start to look at everything through this lens of should I stay or go? Is this going to get better? It really infuses the relationship with a lot of tension and pressure. The reason that I said this is mainly advice for an anxiously attached person is not because it's not good advice generally. But I think when we overlay anxious attachment onto that sticky place, the tendency for an anxiously attached person is to just be so focused on the relationship and on the other person to the exclusion of all else and certainly to the exclusion of your own relationship with yourself.
0:06:51.70 → 0:07:48.11
And when things are not good in the relationship, that tends to really drag down your energy and your self esteem and your self worth. And that makes it really hard to be in a position to make a decision about the relationship, about what needs to happen next from an empowered place, because we tend to have this tussle between I'm not sure what to do about my relationship, but at the same time, my self worth is just getting chipped away at day by day. And that leaves me feeling really scarce and afraid about the idea of the relationship not working out. And so I'm likely to be making decisions and even having conversations from this place of very low self worth and that's probably not going to be conducive to making an aligned decision, which is really what is best for us. So again, this is not with a view to needing to end the relationship, but I really believe that the greatest gift you can give yourself is go.
0:07:48.15 → 0:08:41.31
Okay, I'm going to pivot my attention away from what's happening out there because as I said, anxious attachment, we tend to be very other focused, very outer focused, spending so much time ruminating over what they're thinking and feeling and doing that we lose ourselves in the process. And I think that it can be incredibly empowering in this situation to go, you know what, this is going to be about me for the next period of time. I'm going to focus on my own joy and my own fullness and my own expressiveness for myself, not as some sort of ploy to get their attention, not to make them feel threatened, not to manipulate them into not taking you for granted. It's not about them and that's really, really important here. This is about you.
0:08:41.35 → 0:09:07.90
And that is actually like the revolutionary thing for an anxious person. You're going to do things for you that are just about you that don't relate to the other person. So what does this look like? You might prioritise yourself a lot more in terms of what you do in a day. If you live with your partner and you're used to orbiting around their routine and their preferences and the things they want to eat and the things they want to do.
0:09:08.35 → 0:09:27.04
Just let go of that for a bit and go what do I want? What do I want to do with my time? Can I do things differently for myself? Can I take myself out for a meal? Can I start just spending more time alone and prioritising myself and my self?
0:09:27.09 → 0:10:01.98
Nourishment. In a way that infuses a new energy not only into me but into the relationship that really is a byproduct of it. And I've said this before on the podcast, but the really wonderful thing about doing something like this, about devoting that time to yourself in a really committed, dedicated way, is not only do you build up that relationship with yourself in a way that's probably quite new to you and very empowering and pays dividends for your self worth. But it also allows you to feel like no matter what happens, I'll be okay. Right?
0:10:02.11 → 0:11:13.07
No matter what happens in my relationship, whether my partner is able to meet my needs or meet me halfway or make the changes that we've talked about or whatever it is, right? Whether that happens or not doesn't have to be a comment on me and my worth and I can really rest in the knowing that it's not about me and I don't need to make it about me and I can kind of feel comfortable that no matter what happens I'll be okay. Because I've started to cultivate this really beautiful relationship with myself in a way that allows me to feel like I'll be okay because I'm creating a rich life that doesn't just orbit around my partner and my relationship. And I think that when we are in that pattern of orbiting around our partner and our relationship, the idea of that being taken away is incredibly destabilising and makes us feel like we'd just be spinning around in space, very lost and afraid. So the more that you can come back to your own centre of gravity and make your life more about you, that's going to be a very very powerful shift for you that you'd be surprised will likely have knock on effects for your relationship.
0:11:13.19 → 0:11:59.76
Although again, to emphasise you're not doing it for that purpose, you are doing it for you first and foremost. But I think the ripple effect of that in shifting relational stuckness can be really profound and even if it doesn't, you will be in such a better position to do whatever you need to do next from this place of greater selfhood, greater self knowing, greater self awareness, greater self esteem, all of those good things. The more you build up that sense of self and relationship with yourself, the better off you will be. So that may not be what you expected by way of advice when you started listening to what to do when you're feeling stuck in your relationship. Because as I said, the default thing as an anxious person is, how can I make them change?
0:11:59.89 → 0:12:26.34
Right? Oh, I'm feeling stuck because of all these things they're doing or not doing. How can I control them, essentially? How can I influence them to do what I want them to do so that I don't feel like this anymore? But as I said to someone the other day who asked me a version of this question, for me to give you that advice is just to reinforce the pattern that's to reinforce the old way that we're trying to shake, which is, I need to change them in order to feel safe.
0:12:26.40 → 0:12:56.13
I need to be in control of who they are and how they are. And that needs to look like what I want it to look like, because otherwise I feel out of control, and out of control feels unsafe. But that's not sustainable. That's not a sustainable or healthy way to be in relationship. And so the better way is, can I build up my own sense of self and trust that from that place I'll be much better able to navigate a relational dynamic that is balanced, that is reciprocal, and that is empowered.
0:12:56.47 → 0:13:27.88
So I hope that that has given you some food for thought, and if you're in that place that maybe you can set yourself this challenge of, okay, for the next month, I'm going to go all in on myself. I'm going to be so devoted to me and my life and making that very beautiful and rich and full in a way that isn't contingent upon what my relationship is doing. And even if it's just a month, just do it as a little experiment with yourself and see what happens. See what shifts within you. See what becomes possible from that place.
0:13:28.06 → 0:13:46.14
I'd love to hear from you. If you do do that and you notice anything, feel free to reach out to me and let me know. If you've enjoyed this episode, please do leave a five star rating if you're on Spotify or a written review if you're on Apple podcasts. It really does help so much. And as I said, healing, anxious attachment.
0:13:46.28 → 0:14:00.44
24 ish hours to go until early bird ends. So if you've been on the fence, now is a really good time to hop off the fence and hop inside. I'd love to see you there. Otherwise, I look forward to seeing you on the show next week. Thanks, guys.
0:14:02.09 → 0:14:24.14
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
"How should I bring up moving in together with my avoidant partner?"
In today's Q&A episode, I'm answering the question of how to bring up wanting to move in together with an avoidant partner. This episode will be super helpful for anyone in this same situation, or who is otherwise wanting to have a "what are we?" type chat with their avoidant partner.
In today's Q&A episode, I'm answering the question of how to bring up wanting to move in together with an avoidant partner.
This episode will be super helpful for anyone in this same situation, or who is otherwise wanting to have a "what are we?" type chat with their avoidant partner.
WHAT WE COVER:
mindset shifts for the anxious partner in approaching these conversations
how to own your desires and feel comfortable voicing them
how best to approach these conversations with an avoidant partner
what to do if you're not on the same page
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my signature 8-week course Healing Anxious Attachment
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:00.33 → 0:00:40.17
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship Coach Stephanie Rigg, and I'm really glad you're here. You hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's episode is a Q&A episode and I'm answering the question, how to discuss moving in together with an avoidant partner.
0:00:40.35 → 0:01:22.01
So this is a question that I got via my Instagram stories last week, and I think it's going to be a really useful discussion, not only for people who are in that specific situation. There may be some listening, but it's going to illustrate a broader technique or approach that you can take in. Broaching those maybe sensitive discussions, maybe things that feel intimidating, that feel anxiety inducing. If you're wanting to discuss taking next steps in a relationship, having any sort of where is this going, what are we? Conversation with a partner who does lean towards avoidant attachment and so might have some resistance to those conversations.
0:01:22.11 → 0:02:25.73
So that's what we're going to be talking about today. I'm going to offer you some reframes on how to do the work behind the scenes for yourself going into that, so that you're not in this really constricted state of anxiety and worry and overthinking and trying to be perfect in the way that you discuss that, because I think that's the tendency. And I'll also give you some really practical tools and strategies in terms of the how to of having that conversation, of starting it, of actually going about navigating those discussions, depending on where it goes, so depending on their response, how you can respond to that, to really optimise your chances of not necessarily getting an outcome. I'm not going to tell you strategically how to broach that conversation in a way that's going to guarantee that you're going to move in together. I think that's unrealistic and unhelpful advice, but rather that you can go into it feeling self assured, feeling confident and trusting that no matter what happens, you'll be able to navigate it together and that ultimately you will have your own back and you will be okay.
0:02:25.82 → 0:02:49.43
So that's what we're talking about today. Before I dive into that, a couple of quick announcements. Today is the last episode before doors open to healing anxious attachment on Tuesday. Next week my time, so that'll be late Monday. If you're in the Northern Hemisphere, as many of you are, unless you are brand new here, I'm sure you've heard me harping on about healing anxious attachment.
0:02:49.53 → 0:03:48.46
It is my signature course. It's an eight week programme, although you do get lifetime access to all of the modules. And it really does distil down everything that I know, both from personal experience and from working with over 700 people in this specific programme, and more than double that outside of the programme and it really brings together all of the components that you need. The knowledge, the insight, the self awareness, the mindset shifts, the practical tools, the nervous system regulation, all of those things come together to give you a really comprehensive programme that is going to help you repate, rebuild and relearn how to experience relationships in a safe way. So if you're someone who struggles with anxious attachment and you are exhausted and overwhelmed and feeling like you've tried everything, then I really, really encourage you to join the Waitlist in the Show notes that will allow you to access discounted pricing and first access when doors open next week.
0:03:48.48 → 0:04:20.60
And that is exclusive to the people on the waitlist. So make sure that you do jump on the waitlist if you're wanting to join the course or even just give yourself the option to join the course and save $100. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is I've been very interested in attachment theory and I've toyed or halfheartedly tried to understand and apply it to my own relationship. I came across Stephanie's podcast during my research and it has brought to life my understanding of attachment theory and my own attachment style, as well as my partner's. Her advice and tips in the podcast are so invaluable and helpful.
0:04:20.66 → 0:04:36.61
She is that wise and realistic voice you need to hear to start healing. I look forward to her episodes every week to deepen that understanding and to continue my journey. I highly, highly recommend this podcast and all of Stephanie's resources. Thank you so much for that beautiful review. I really appreciate it.
0:04:36.68 → 0:05:24.46
If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierig.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my master classes as a way to say thank you. Okay, so let's dive into this conversation around how would I approach raising the discussion of moving in together with my partner who is avoidant? So I think the starting point, as I foreshadowed in the introduction to this episode, I think some of this is our work. If you're more anxious leaning and you're in this position or a similar situation whereby you want to raise one of those relationship progression conversations or clarifying what the relationship is and where it's going, there's definitely going to be some preparatory work on your part, because that's going to bring up a lot of stuff in you. A lot of fear, a lot of anxiety.
0:05:24.60 → 0:06:05.74
I think what can happen is we can be so convinced of how they're going to respond to something, what they're going to think and feel, that we have this anticipatory anxiety. We think we know how it's going to go before we've even taken the tiniest little step towards it. And so we're so braced for that outcome that our system is already gearing up to self protect in whatever way it knows how. So whether that's by being critical or by fawning or collapsing or dismissing ourselves or suppressing what it is we really want and feel. We have all of these strategies in our toolbox, and we're already so primed to have to lean on them.
0:06:05.79 → 0:06:28.86
And those strategies, while they can help us and they have helped us in the past, oftentimes when we zoom out a bit, we can see how they're blocking us from getting what we want. And that is particularly true in these kinds of vulnerable conversations. So I think a really important first step is to go, okay, here's my desire. I want to move in with my partner. Okay?
0:06:28.98 → 0:06:56.71
I need to not make myself wrong for that. I need to not cloak that in shame or oh, I'm being too needy, I'm being too clingy, I'm being too whatever. That's a perfectly legitimate thing to desire in your relationship. That doesn't mean that your partner is necessarily going to be on the same page as you and be ready to move at the same pace. But I think an important prerequisite to having this conversation is really being okay with the fact that that's your desire.
0:06:56.81 → 0:07:44.97
Because when you're insecure about the desire, then again, you're going to be really protective of it, and you're probably going to try and make them wrong for being different to you to the extent that they're not on the same page. So the more you can just stand firm and grounded and calm in the fact that you want to move in with your partner, which is a beautiful thing, then I think that that kind of softens your energy going into the conversation. At the same time, I think it is really important to understand that your partner may not be on the same page as you. And that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't love you, they're not committed to you, they don't care about you, that you love them more than they love you. I think we just need to really watch the meaning making processes that our brain will jump to so quickly in this kind of conversation.
0:07:45.02 → 0:08:16.17
Right? Because it's natural to be sensitive to rejection and to feel hurt if we're wanting to move forward and someone else isn't meeting us in that desire. But I think the more that we make that mean something about the relationship at a fundamental level, then the more likely we are to again come out with these protective strategies that might block us from having a productive conversation. So I think that something helpful to do is clarify for yourself, why is this important to me? Why do I want to move in together with my partner?
0:08:16.51 → 0:08:36.92
How important is it to me? What would that mean for us? What would be different if we live together? How would that impact me and our relationship? Just getting a little bit more clarity for yourself around the significance of this thing and why that is something that you desire so that you're better able to explain that to your partner.
0:08:37.03 → 0:09:23.77
Again, open, vulnerable, not carrying a lot of emotional density and judgement and control, just sharing. I would really love this because of X-Y-Z and having that conversation. I think another really important tip is while you should clarify your thinking ahead of the conversation because I think it's really good to know broadly what you want to say and why it's important to you. Try not to be too rigid around scripting the perfect Oscar award winning speech and needing to deliver it in the perfect way so that you get the desired outcome. I get questions like this from anxious people all the time and it's how should I say this thing?
0:09:23.81 → 0:10:36.40
And I think people do kind of want a script. And while I understand that that can be helpful in feeling a little more prepared going into these conversations where otherwise you can spin out and get overwhelmed, I think the more we script it for ourselves and put that pressure on ourselves to almost perform perfectly, then not only do we rob ourselves of the opportunity to be open and curious and genuinely listen, rather than being really narrow in our expectation and our desire for where the conversation goes, we also then are creating the illusion that we're in control of where the conversation goes. And what that does is mean that if they don't respond the way we want, it's our fault because we didn't deliver it properly, because we didn't do our part properly. Whereas if you can go into it with the mindset of all I can do is honestly and vulnerably, share where I'm at and what I want, and then I can listen, and then I can respond and continue to let that unfold as it will, then it's much less on your shoulders to manage where the conversation goes and how it
0:10:36.42 → 0:10:44.31
goes. And I think again as more anxious leaning people, your tendency is going to be to want to take responsibility, to want to control.
0:10:44.51 → 0:11:27.94
And while that is a way that we try and keep ourselves safe again, it not only blocks us from getting what we want a lot of the time, but it then creates a lot of shame and inadequacy in the system. So with those mindset pieces out of the way and just to recap, those were things like get really clear about your desires, own those desires, feel comfortable with those desires and certainly don't go into it with any sense of shame or self judgement around the desires. Watch the meaning making. So don't preemptively go oh, if they say no, it's because they don't love me, it's because they don't care, it's because they're not committed to me. And also try not to be too perfectionistic and narrow minded about how the conversation has to go.
0:11:27.99 → 0:11:51.95
Try and be quite open. I want to now turn to giving you some specific tips strategies on how to actually go to that conversation. So I recorded an episode a couple of weeks ago around how to have hard conversations with an avoidant partner. So that's definitely a good one to revisit if you are in this situation. And those tips and tools will be really helpful here as well.
0:11:52.10 → 0:12:16.27
But the kinds of things you're going to be looking for be selective in your timing for this. Right. Again, find the middle ground. We don't want to be overly tiptoeing or walking on eggshells or feeling like we've got to find the perfect moment. But if you're really stressed and heightened, that's not a good time because your nervous system is going to be sending so much information to their nervous system that you're already going to be in this threatened state.
0:12:16.36 → 0:12:36.58
Both of you are going to be dysregulated going into that conversation and that is not what we want. So choose your moment, wait till you're grounded and don't ambush them with the conversation. Right. Particularly for an avoidant partner. They're not going to want anything where they feel suffocated or overwhelmed or backed into a corner.
0:12:36.69 → 0:13:20.02
So really asking for permission, hey, there's something I'd like to chat to you about. When would be a good time and if that's in a week or three, let it be when it will be. Obviously again with accountability and making sure you do actually get to have the conversation, but not in a way that feels like their backs up against the wall because that's going to put them on the defensive straight out of the caden. That is obviously not conducive to the kind of conversation we want to have here. I think the other thing is try and really be curious and open minded into what their position is rather than, as I said, attacking them or trying to control or manipulate them to the extent that they're not on the same page as you.
0:13:20.12 → 0:14:00.03
Try and actually hear what they're saying. Try and understand what their concerns are or their reservations are and be open to rather than just doubling down on your position and being forceful with that. Is there some middle ground that isn't just my way or your way, figuring out what that might look like and putting it to them, not just putting it on yourself to come up with the solution? Really collaboratively going, okay, what might this look like for us? Now, to give you a specific kind of example of how this might go, Because I think a lot of the time what will happen is anxious person wants to move in together, suggests that to avoidant partner.
0:14:00.08 → 0:14:53.22
Avoidant partner says, I don't think we're there yet because they might have reservations around, something like that because that's going to be a big deal for most avoidant people to give up their space, their independence, their autonomy, and to really merge with someone in quite a literal sense that's going to feel really edgy for them. So it will take them longer in most cases than it will take an anxious person to be ready for that. If that happens and they say, I don't think we're there yet, rather than being hurt and lashing out, could you potentially have sympathy for that and go, okay, fair enough. Can we revisit this in three months time or six months time? And if they say, oh, I don't really want to put a deadline on it, let's just see how we go, that's the point at which you can go, I hear you, and I understand that you don't want to feel controlled or pressured.
0:14:53.36 → 0:15:38.05
At the same time, it's really hard for me to just feel kind of open ended and like, I don't know where this is going. It doesn't have to be a decision we make right now, but it would be really helpful for me if we had some sort of structure around when we're going to revisit the conversation so it doesn't feel like this thing looming over us that I don't have any visibility over. So really asserting that need and going, I understand it doesn't have to be today and it doesn't have to be tomorrow, but it would be really supportive for me if we could agree to revisit this conversation in whatever period of time makes sense. So that is how you set a boundary, right? Again, I think so many people go, oh no, a boundary means I have to declare an ultimatum and say it's now or never, and do some big dramatic storm out.
0:15:38.17 → 0:16:11.51
No, the boundary can just be going, okay, I hear you, but here's my needs, so how can we meet in the middle? That is how you build healthy relationships based on trust and mutual respect. So I hope that that has been helpful in giving you not only the mindset stuff, but also some more practical tools and strategies. If you found this helpful again, I really do encourage you to sign up for Healing Anxious Attachment when it opens next week. Not only do you get eight modules of video lessons, workbooks, meditations from me, but we also have two live Q&A calls.
0:16:11.53 → 0:16:44.90
So you can come on live with me and bring questions like this or anything else that you're struggling with and get live coaching from me. So if that's something that appeals to you and you are looking to make some changes and get some support, I really, really do encourage you to join the waitlist and sign up to your Healing Anxious Attachment next week when doors open. And if you've enjoyed this episode, as always, super grateful if you can, leave a five star rating. If you're listening on Spotify, leave a review. If you're listening on Apple podcasts, it really does help so much, and I'm so grateful to all of you for your ongoing support of the podcast.
0:16:45.09 → 0:17:09.12
Thanks so much for joining me, everybody, and I look forward to seeing you next week. Take care. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com. And if you're enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating.
0:17:09.18 --> 0:17:13.88
It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
From Anxious to Secure: 6 Shifts You'll Notice As You Heal
In anticipation of the upcoming launch of my signature program Healing Anxious Attachment, today's episode is all about what changes you can expect as you heal your anxious attachment. I'll be sharing 6 shifts that you'll notice as you do the healing work and become more secure within yourself and in your relationships.
In anticipation of the upcoming launch of my signature program Healing Anxious Attachment, today's episode is all about what changes you can expect as you heal your anxious attachment.
I'll be sharing 6 shifts that you'll notice as you do the healing work and become more secure within yourself and in your relationships.
WHAT WE COVER:
learning to observe your anxious thoughts rather than be ruled by them
not feeling the urgent need to fix and problem-solve your relationship
trusting that conflict isn't a matter of life or death
building your self-worth
learning to enjoy your own company
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my signature 8-week course Healing Anxious Attachment
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:00.90 → 0:00:36.67
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship coach Stephanie Rigg, and I'm really glad you're here. Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's episode is titled from Anxious to Secure Six Shifts.
0:00:36.72 → 0:01:15.85
You'll notice as you heal. So, as the title suggests, we're going to be talking about what that journey looks like as you start to heal your anxious attachment style and develop a more secure way of being in relationships. So what I'm going to share with you today is drawn not only from my personal experience of shifts I've noticed within myself and in my relationship as I have worked on my own anxious attachment over the years, but also the shifts that I consistently notice in the many, many hundreds of people that I've worked with in healing their anxious attachment. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. Before I dive into that, a couple of quick announcements.
0:01:15.98 → 0:01:56.62
In keeping with the theme of today's episode, you will have heard me speaking about my signature programme, Healing Anxious Attachment, which is reopening for early bird enrollment in less than one week. For those of you already on the waitlist and I think there's almost 1200, which is amazing, you are all taken care of and you will get an email when doors open next week. If you aren't on the waitlist, but you're interested in the Healing Anxious Attachment programme, definitely join the waitlist. You can do so via the link in the show notes and that will ensure that you get first access next week as soon as doors open, and will also entitle you to save $100 on the course price. So definitely join the waitlist if you're at all interested.
0:01:56.75 → 0:02:24.10
And as I said, the link is in the show notes or you can go straight to my website, stephanierig.com and that should all be relatively straightforward and easy to find. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is this is the only podcast that I've listened to every single episode and have been able to relate to. I'm fearful avoidant attachment and lean anxious. This has made it extremely hard to maintain relationships. Stephanie's knowledge has taught me so many things about myself and I'm thankful every day that I found this podcast.
0:02:24.24 → 0:02:48.19
Thank you, Stephanie. There are no words that can express the gratitude I have for you and your work. Thank you so much for that beautiful review. Brought a big smile to my face and I'm so glad that you found my work and that you are getting so much out of it. If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierigg.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my Master classes as a way to say thank you.
0:02:48.31 → 0:03:13.88
Okay, so let's dive into these six shifts that you'll notice as you heal your anxious attachment style. And I should say at the outset, a couple of things. This is far from an exhaustive list. As I was writing it. You might notice that usually I have five tips or five signs or five something, and I had to keep going and I thought of a 6th one and then I started thinking of 7th and 8th ones and then I had to just hold myself back.
0:03:14.01 → 0:03:43.63
In the interests of brevity for the podcast. So this is not an exhaustive list. These are just six of many shifts that you'll notice as you heal your anxious attachment style. The other quick thing I should say at the outset, and this is particularly for people who might be new to the podcast, new to my work, or even new to attachment theory, a really important and foundational thing about all of this work, which makes it so powerful, is that healing is possible for everyone. I always get asked, is it really possible?
0:03:43.75 → 0:04:15.58
Is that really something that is achievable for people to not be anxious anymore, to become secure? And the way that I always answer that is, yes, it is possible for everyone to become more secure in their attachment. That doesn't mean that you'll never be anxious again. It's something that I still come up against from time to time, but it's no longer my whole experience, it's no longer my story, it's no longer something that I'm at the mercy of. So it really is something that you can unlearn and you can learn a new way of being.
0:04:15.63 → 0:04:56.39
And that is why I'm such a big advocate of this work and I really do believe in its efficacy. Okay, so let's dive into these six shifts that you'll notice as you heal your anxious attachment style. The first one is you're able to distance yourself from your anxious thoughts and stories in real time. So you're able to shift into more of a witnessing role and really observe your thoughts and stories in real time rather than experiencing them in this all consuming way. In this way that feels very true and then creates so much anxiety and stress in your system and spins you out of control.
0:04:56.59 → 0:05:29.43
So, again, this is true for not only anxious attachment. I think generally, as we do any kind of healing work, and certainly a lot of meditation and other spiritual practises are predicated on cultivating this skill of being able to witness ourselves in real time. And I think it certainly is, particularly for the anxious mind, the anxious system. It is a really powerful shift that you will notice because once you can stop yourself and go, wait a second, what am I making this mean? Is that necessarily true?
0:05:29.50 → 0:06:18.37
Do I have all the information? What are my choices in this moment? Do I need to spin out and start frantically trying to fix things or get back in control or get information or connect with someone or do whatever other fear driven thing my body would have me do. I can kind of interrupt the process much earlier and kind of coach myself out of it in a way that when you're at the earliest stages of your journey with anxious attachment, that can feel really out of reach, that ability to distance ourselves from the fear and the anxiety and shift into more of an observer role and really decide that, no, I'm going to act from a more grounded place. I'm going to look at this situation with a bird's eye view and I'm going to assess what's really happening.
0:06:18.49 → 0:07:19.96
I'm going to ask myself what I need and then I'm going to decide on the other side of that space and that process of self inquiry and that alone. Honestly, if that was the only shift you made, you'd be in such a better position than before you made that shift. Because it really is very powerful and transformative, not only for your relationships, in that it prevents you from lashing out or engaging in other activating strategies or protest behaviours that can be harmful to your relationship, but it's actually just so powerful for you in your own ability to calm yourself and your own ability to create safety for yourself and support yourself in those moments. Because again, before you go through the process of healing and when you don't have that tool, you can feel not only really stressed, panicky, afraid, but really alone, because you are not able to provide that safety for yourself. And so you feel terrified because it's like being a frightened child and no one's there to help you.
0:07:20.01 → 0:08:04.98
So that is the first shift that you'll notice as you heal. You're able to shift into that observer role and remain grounded. Even when anxiety is present, even when those fear stories come up, you're not at the mercy of them. Okay, the next shift that I've noticed, this is a big one, that I've really noticed in my relationship is I don't feel such a sense of urgency in terms of fixing and addressing everything. So if there is something that's bothering me, if something's happened, if my partner said something or done something, or not said something, or not done something, whatever it might be that stirred up some sort of an emotional response in me, I trust that we will address it at an appropriate time.
0:08:05.11 → 0:08:59.43
So, by contrast, before I had done a lot of this work and I'm sure a lot of people listening will relate to this, there's this sense of urgency around. We have to address everything now because it's not safe for there to be any sort of tension or disconnection or any other thing that could feel threatening to the relationship. And your fear will always tell you that everything is urgent and global and important and make or break, right? So as you start to heal, you trust in the relationship enough and in the connection you have with your partner that you don't need to kind of storm into the space of the relationship with this long list of here are all of the things that are wrong, and we need to fix them right now. Because I can't tolerate anything less than perfection in our relationship, in our connection.
0:08:59.51 → 0:09:27.58
And relatedly to this one, I would say your tendency to keep raising the bar all the time softens a bit. So this is something that anxiously attached people are notorious for this sense of okay, we need to do this thing in order for the relationship to be okay, we need to make this change or we need to fix that problem. And then as soon as that thing does get addressed, it's not enough. We need more. We move the carrot keeps dangling, we keep moving the goalposts all the time.
0:09:27.76 → 0:10:23.80
And the reason for that is often because we can't ever feel reassured. Because the thing that we're saying we need in order to be okay is not really the thing that we need. It goes so much deeper than that surface level thing that might be triggering us and so it will never feel like enough. Our ability to receive that reassurance is really impeded by the fact that we're not addressing the root cause of the problem there. So I think as you start to heal and as you start to reprogram some of these old patterns, you'll really notice that not only you don't have this urgent need to fix everything in terms of you can let things digest and settle and trust that when the time comes, you'll have a conversation, you'll work through it and you don't have such a strong bias towards everything that is wrong and feel this need to once one thing's.
0:10:23.83 → 0:11:02.14
Addressed. It's almost playing whack a mole with all of the things that are wrong in your relationship rather than just resting in a feeling of peace and contentedness. Okay, so the next one is that when there is a rupture, so if you do have a fight, if there is conflict in your relationship, it doesn't feel like life or death. Okay? So again, by contrast, I think for people who are in the thick of anxious attachment and again, this was certainly me, conflict feels really, really scary because for most of us, we have this sense of feeling like we're only ever one fight away from breaking up.
0:11:02.27 → 0:11:38.45
Even if that's not true, right? Even if there are no signs to suggest that in the relationship, even if there's no evidence to support the fact that you really are on the brink of the relationship ending. It feels like that because disconnection feels really, really unsafe to the point of almost feeling life threatening. And so because we've got this looming fear of abandonment that is always just there under the surface and driving so many of our fears and protective strategies and behaviour. As soon as there is conflict, there can be this sense of, oh no, this is it, this is where it all ends.
0:11:38.50 → 0:12:40.01
This is where you're going to leave me. And that really, again, interferes with our ability to have healthy conflict because we've got our fear goggles on, right? When we start to do the healing work and we start to learn new ways of experiencing conflict safely, of having hard conversations, of advocating for ourselves without getting really combative and antagonistic with a partner, we start to realise that conflict can be had safely, that not every rupture is a matter of life or death. We can zoom out and go, okay, I can hold in one hand the fact that I'm upset with you or you're upset with me over this thing and we still love each other and care about each other and we're committed to each other and everything's going to be okay, we're going to get through this. Our ability to hold both of those things is something that most anxious people need to learn, because as soon as we've got in one hand, you're upset with me, it's very, very hard for us to feel like everything else could still be okay.
0:12:40.13 → 0:13:10.58
And being able to hold both of those things as true is a really powerful and important shift that you will notice as you heal. Okay, so that's a nice segue into the next shift you'll notice, which is you're able to find your way to the healthy middle, the space of both and. So if you've not heard that expression before, both and, meaning the opposite of either or. And I think again, when we're in fear and insecurity, we live in the land of either or. It's either my needs or your needs.
0:13:10.68 → 0:13:55.15
It's inherently oppositional. There's so much competition built into it and we are operating from this place of threat and self protection, and that is the space of either or. When we start to become more secure, when we start to build our capacity, we realise that there are so many options in between the extremes of either or, of me versus you, and we start to recognise that both and is possible too. So what do I mean by that? To take it out of the abstract, an example might mean I can have compassion for you and I can have boundaries for myself rather than if I'm compassionate for you, that means that I'm making excuses for you when I lose myself.
0:13:55.24 → 0:14:14.11
That's the insecure version, right? The secure version is, I can have compassion for you. I can see that this is hard for you and I'm not going to lose myself in the process of feeling that empathy and compassion for you. I'm still going to advocate for myself. I can assert my needs while also respecting your needs.
0:14:14.26 → 0:14:27.40
We don't have to play in this zero sum game of either you get your needs met or I get mine met. Again, that is insecure lens. We go, okay, how do we both get our needs met? What's the compromise? What are the choices?
0:14:27.46 → 0:14:56.10
How could this look in a way that works for both of us so we find our way to this healthy middle. Okay, so the next shift that you will notice is you start to really believe in your own worth and value, both as a person and as a partner. Okay, this is huge. Again, you could take any one of these on their own and they would be hugely valuable to your life and relationships. But this one in particular, you start to actually believe that you have worth and value.
0:14:56.28 → 0:15:23.47
So a lot of anxiously attached people, I would probably say all anxiously attached people struggle with low self worth to some degree. And that low self worth drives a lot of relationship patterns and behaviours. Things like not expressing needs, things like not having boundaries, things like jealousy and comparison. All of this stuff comes from oh no, I don't believe that you could really love me for me. I don't believe that you could really value me.
0:15:23.59 → 0:16:03.18
So I people please or I over give, I overextend myself to try and earn your approval and your love and keep your approval and your love. Perfectionism is another great example of how that unworthiness drives unhealthy behaviours. We feel like we have to be perfect, otherwise someone's going to leave us. So as you start to do this work and you start to build up that self worth and that self respect, you go, wait a second, I have a lot to offer. I believe in my own worth, I believe that I deserve to have needs, I believe that I deserve to be cared for.
0:16:03.31 → 0:16:35.43
And that is such a powerful shift because it allows you to stand tall and stand firm in your relationships. Again, not from a place of aggression or self protection, but just from a place of self advocacy. And that's really the energy that you'll start to notice yourself embodying as you become more secure, this energy of self advocacy. And that is really such a beautiful shift to notice in yourself whether you're in a relationship or not. Okay, the last shift that I want to offer you is that you start to enjoy your own company more.
0:16:35.63 → 0:17:28.76
So a lot of anxiously attached people really struggle with being on their own. And particularly if they're in a relationship, they tend to be so consumed by thinking about the relationship all the time and being apart from their partner can be quite triggering, can stir up some level of stress response. Now, depending on the dynamic in the relationship and how much trust and stability is in the relationship, that might go from very low level anxiety all the way up to quite extreme anxiety when you're apart from your partner. But as you start to become more secure, you're less consumed by thinking about your relationship all the time, or even by dating. If you are dating rather than in a relationship, and you start to develop this really beautiful, comfortable, thriving relationship with yourself, you start exploring who am I, what do I like?
0:17:28.81 → 0:18:11.49
What do I like doing? You start prioritising yourself and figuring out how you want to live your life. Again, this isn't a reaction against being in a relationship. It's not to say that you can't enjoy the company of your partner or other people, but you're not dependent on it in order to feel safe, secure, fulfilled in your life. And you really start to build out the pillars of your life and diversify your energy so that you're not over indexed on your relationship or your dating prospects or that kind of domain, which for most anxiously attached people as a starting point, takes up 99% of their field of vision at any given time.
0:18:11.58 → 0:18:56.29
And as you would know, and as I certainly know, that gets really exhausting. So as you become more secure, you really do start to not only prioritise yourself, but really enjoy building that relationship with yourself and step into a more fully embodied, authentic version of who you are. And from that place so much becomes possible. It's amazing for me, my students and clients, it's not just the relationship stuff that changes it's I've quit my job and I'm starting my own business, or I got a promotion, or I'm travelling the world. All of these things become possible when we step away from fear and into a more authentic, secure, embodied version of ourselves.
0:18:56.37 → 0:19:31.07
So that is a really powerful shift that you'll notice as you become more secure and shift away from those old patterns of anxious attachment. Okay, so that was six shifts you'll notice as you heal. I really hope that that has been helpful and I hope that if you are someone who struggles with anxious attachment, I hope this has inspired you and given you a sense of what is possible for you and available to you if you do this work. Because I promise you, this is a transformation that I've experienced and that I have accompanied many, many people on. It is possible for you.
0:19:31.11 → 0:20:07.65
And as I said, I really hope that this has given you some cause for optimism and has inspired you to do the work. And if you are someone who struggles with anxious attachment and you're ready to make a change and you'd like some support in doing that, do cheque out healing anxious attachment. My signature course, the Waitlist link is in the show notes and early bird enrollment opens in just six days time and I would love to see you there. Thank you so much for joining me, guys. If you've enjoyed this episode, please do leave a rating or a review if you're listening on Apple podcasts, but otherwise I look forward to seeing you later in the week for our Q and A episode.
0:20:07.75 → 0:20:29.94
Thanks, guys. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much.
0:20:30.07 --> 0:20:33.16
Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
"What's the difference between privacy and secrecy in relationships?"
In today's episode, we're talking about the difference between privacy and secrecy. Depending on where you sit on the attachment spectrum, you may have a complicated relationship with privacy - both your own and others'. We'll discuss where the line is between privacy and secrecy, and what to do if you find other people's privacy uncomfortable or triggering.
In today's episode, we're talking about the difference between privacy and secrecy.
Depending on where you sit on the attachment spectrum, you may have a complicated relationship with privacy - both your own and others'. We'll discuss where the line is between privacy and secrecy, and what to do if you find other people's privacy uncomfortable or triggering.
WHAT WE COVER:
what's the difference between privacy and secrecy?
anxious attachment and the need for information to eliminate uncertainty
the trust wound
avoidant attachment and protectiveness around privacy
important caveats where there has been a known breach of trust
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my signature 8-week course Healing Anxious Attachment
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:00.90 → 0:00:37.59
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship coach Stephanie Rigg, and I'm really glad you're here. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. In today's episode, I'm going to be answering the question of when does privacy become secrecy?
0:00:38.03 → 0:01:24.42
Where is the line between privacy and secrecy? How can we navigate this? And how can we probably become more comfortable with reasonable levels of privacy without experiencing privacy as secrecy? And I'm really talking to my anxiously attached listeners there because without giving too much away of what we're going to talk about today, I'm sure you can relate to feeling really uncomfortable with privacy and probably feeling like privacy is secrecy. So we're going to be talking about that, what the difference is between the two, how you can become more trusting of reasonable boundaries around privacy, and also some caveats to privacy versus secrecy when there has been a breach of trust.
0:01:24.55 → 0:01:51.40
So that's what we're going to be talking about today. Before we dive into that, a couple of quick announcements. The first being just a reminder again, that my signature course, Healing Anxious Attachment, is opening up for early bird enrollment in about ten days for those on the waitlist. So if you're interested, definitely join the waitlist. That will ensure that you get notified when doors open and will also allow you to access the early bird price, which is exclusive to those on the waitlist.
0:01:51.46 → 0:02:26.66
So the link to that is in the show notes, if you're interested, and I definitely encourage you to cheque it out. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is I discovered the On Attachment podcast a few weeks ago and I've been listening to it at every opportunity since. Stephanie's helped me understand why it feels like I spin out and why my self esteem plummets at certain times in my life and recognising these triggers has already helped me to self soothe and make choices to keep myself on track. The podcast has brought me closer to my partner and also, strangely, to my parents. It's allowed my parents and I to understand our dynamic as a family and to communicate and support one another better.
0:02:26.76 → 0:02:44.48
It's also helping my parents navigate their anxious avoidance cycle. I'm realising that my anxious attachment style has ruled my life and my emotions in so many ways since I was a kid. And I'm so looking forward to joining the next Healing Anxious Attachment course this month. Thank you so much, Stephanie. Thank you so much for that beautiful review.
0:02:44.61 → 0:03:02.74
That is so lovely to hear that not only you're having those experiences of growth and transformation, but that it's rippling out to the relationships in your life and your family and your parents. That's really, really amazing. And humbling. So thank you for sharing that. It's put a big smile on my face.
0:03:02.79 → 0:03:54.85
If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierigg.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my master classes, which will be a nice supplement to the healing anxious attachment course if you do end up joining this month. Okay, so with that out of the way, let's dive into this conversation about privacy and secrecy. So as a starting point, I think we need to distinguish between what privacy is and what secrecy is. And while the specific content of privacy versus secrecy is likely to be contextually specific, I think it's useful to define them by reference to the energy or the intention behind it. And in my mind, privacy is my partner doesn't need to know about this, but they could, and it wouldn't be a problem, whereas secrecy is.
0:03:54.89 → 0:04:36.84
I have to make sure they don't find out about this, because if they did, it would be a problem. Okay, so secrecy has this quality of concealment. I have done something that is in breach of some boundary or agreement which is overt or implied in our relationship. I've done something in breach of that, and I've got to go about making sure my partner doesn't find out because there would be adverse consequences for our relationship if they were to find out. Whereas privacy is just I don't need to share every single thought, feeling, movement, everything I do in a day, everything I think and feel, I don't need to share that with my partner, and I don't need them to share that with me.
0:04:37.29 → 0:04:56.93
So that's the starting point, right? And it's really important to understand that privacy is a good thing. Privacy is important. Privacy is a feature or a byproduct of having healthy boundaries in a relationship. Where this gets really tricky is when we overlay attachment dynamics onto it, which is often the case, right?
0:04:57.02 → 0:06:00.17
We can have the base conversation and then we have the attachment overlay where it gets a little bit more complicated and charged. So on the anxious side, in my experience, privacy feels like secrecy because we have oftentimes a trust wound and we have this anxiety and we have this real struggle around uncertainty. And so our anxiety will tell us that the antidote to uncertainty is information, and gathering as much information as possible is going to alleviate the anxiety, and that's how we're going to get to safety. Unfortunately, what that means is someone else's reasonable privacy feels threatening to us, and that can lead us to be invasive and intrusive and do things like snoop or pry or ask probing questions of someone. And if you're in a relationship with someone who leans more avoidant, they're likely to have a really protective response to that.
0:06:00.21 → 0:06:51.80
Because if we walk around to the other side of the street and we look at how avoidant leaning people relate to privacy and secrecy. We know that for avoidant people a sense of self and clear autonomy and independence and not feeling controlled, that's really important to them, feeling safe in a relationship. So they're likely to lean heavily on privacy as their right, as something that they're entitled to, and they're likely to be very protective of that. So to the extent that their partner, who might be more anxious leaning, starts to push the boundaries of that because they're feeling anxious and their partner's privacy feels threatening to them, they're going to double down on that privacy. And really push them away, which is going to send alarm bells ringing for the anxious person going, oh, no, they're really hiding something because they're not just opening the kimono, so to speak.
0:06:51.98 → 0:07:37.05
So what do we do with that? I think that this is a much bigger conversation than I can get into in a short Q and A episode. But I think the essence of this one is if you are more anxious leaning and you notice that privacy is triggering for you, someone else having privacy, that's a good sign that you need to work on your own boundaries. Because I suppose the flip side of this is you're likely to not protect your own privacy very much. And I think that a lot of anxious people tend to be like an extreme open book, tend to over disclose, tend to offer everything up very early in a relationship because there's this story that to tell someone everything, that's how we build connection, right?
0:07:37.25 → 0:08:07.45
That if I just kind of disclose everything and tell you all of my secrets or whatever, if I just share everything with you, that's how I build connection with you. And so privacy is not something that you're likely to value so much for yourself. Which again, reinforces the fact that someone else's valuing of their privacy is offensive, is threatening, is hurtful, is them pushing you away, is them not wanting to connect with you. Okay? But we really need to recognise here what of that is our stuff.
0:08:07.64 → 0:08:55.12
And I'd say in that circumstance, when it is just healthy levels of privacy, there's no reason to be suspicious of anything of concern. I think that's our responsibility to get curious about, to increase our tolerance for that. And that's really our work around uncertainty and the ways that we try to manage uncertainty through control. Okay, so if you're more anxious leaning and you are nodding in self recognition here, that's your work, right, is to do the work around what's my relationship to uncertainty and control and vulnerability? Because I think a lot of the time, and this is an important point, we seek transparency, all the information, as a substitute for trust, right?
0:08:55.14 → 0:09:24.22
We tell ourselves that if we know everything, then we'll be able to decide whether or not to trust. And that really defeats the purpose of trust. It undermines the whole premise of trust, which involves an element of the unknown. It involves uncertainty, it involves vulnerability. So if the only reason you trust someone is because you are satisfied that you have gathered all the information that there is to know and there's nothing to lead you to believe that you shouldn't trust them, that's actually kind of missing the point.
0:09:24.27 → 0:09:46.72
That's not really trust, that's just control. And it's very flimsy because it commits you to having to keep gathering all of the information all the time in order to keep assessing whether or not you can trust. Okay? So that is your growth edge. If you're someone who does lean, more anxious or otherwise, but you know that you struggle with other people's privacy, that is really where your work is.
0:09:46.90 → 0:10:26.13
Now, the caveat to all of this is where there has been a known breach of trust in a relationship, an obvious example being infidelity in those circumstances, it may be reasonable to forego a level of privacy for a period of time while trust is rebuilt. So, for example, if your partner was caught doing something on their phone sexting with someone or was still on dating apps or something like that, and that was a breach of trust in your relationship? That was a breach? Of the boundaries of your relationship, then for a period of time after that, it may be reasonable for you to agree that they don't get privacy around their phone. Right?
0:10:26.17 → 0:11:33.46
That they have to sacrifice that and commit to a level of transparency, meaning actually volunteering information that would be more than regular levels of privacy would require in order to rebuild trust. And the onus really needs to be on them, on the person who has betrayed trust to give up those privileges for a period of time in order to go above and beyond to rebuild the trust. So I think that that's an important qualifier to this conversation around privacy. Trust and secrecy is that the starting point should be privacy, but where you've been given a valid reason to not trust in the safety of privacy, then that might be a conversation to be had and something to negotiate. And I really encourage you to probably seek out the support of a couple's therapist or someone who can be a neutral third party to help you manage that, because it can get really charged and highly emotional and can be really challenging to navigate on your own.
0:11:33.56 → 0:12:12.59
So I hope that that's been helpful for you in answering this question of what's the difference between privacy and secrecy? Where's the line between them and what's reasonable, what's healthy, what's unhealthy? And if you recognise that in yourself that healthy privacy feels unsafe for you, then that's a really good sign that there's some work to be done around the trust wound and your relationship to uncertainty and control. And that's very much fertile ground for self exploration. If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a quick review if you're listening on Apple podcasts or a five star rating.
0:12:12.64 → 0:12:34.09
If you're listening on Spotify, it really does help so much. Otherwise, I will see you again next week. Thanks so much for joining me guys. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram, @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com.
0:12:34.21 → 0:12:43.34
And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
5 Ways to Support a Fearful Avoidant Partner
In today's episode, I'm sharing 5 ways to support a partner with a fearful avoidant (AKA disorganised) attachment style. The fearful avoidant attachment style is often considered the most complex and challenging of the attachment styles, characterised by a conflicting push-pull between wanting intimacy and fearing it.
In today's episode, I'm sharing 5 ways to support a partner with a fearful avoidant (AKA disorganised) attachment style.
The fearful avoidant attachment style is often considered the most complex and challenging of the attachment styles, characterised by a conflicting push-pull between wanting intimacy and fearing it.
WHAT WE COVER:
the betrayal wound and the importance of honesty & openness in building trust
striking the right balance between compassion & firm boundaries
how to make the fearful avoidant feel loved & appreciated
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:38.09 → 0:01:20.06
So this episode has been much requested and has been a long time coming. I recorded a couple of episodes last year that were how to support an anxious partner and how to support an avoidant partner. But I never quite got around to doing a standalone episode for the fearful avoidant partner and I think it's fair to say that there are enough differences and points of distinction between fearful avoidant and a more classic dismissive avoidant attachment that it's very much worthy of its own episode to dive into those. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. And I'll say at the outset that this is very personal because I am in relationship with someone who has a fearful avoidant attachment style.
0:01:20.09 → 0:02:00.21
So this is very much drawn from personal experience and I have run these five tips past my partner, Joel, and had his sign off. So I've got my in house consultant on fearful avoidant attachment. So there you go. You can know when you're listening to this, that not only does it have that tick of approval, but it's also very much coming from the perspective of me and in my relationship, having found ways to navigate and create healthy, secure connection, despite those attachment, fears, insecurities and what could be described as quote unquote, problem behaviours. Although I don't really like that term, but you know what I mean.
0:02:00.36 → 0:02:41.50
Me, of course, having done a lot of work, but definitely leaning anxious in the way that I experience my own attachment fears and behaviours, and my partner very much being in that fearful avoiding camp, we've managed to overcome those starting points and build something really beautiful. So I give you these tips, not as a hypothetical, but really as almost an audit of what has worked really well for us. So I thought I'd share that, just to give a little bit of extra context and take it out of the abstract a bit. Before we dive into that, a couple of quick announcements. The first being that Healing Anxious Attachment, which is my Signature Course, is opening for enrollment in less than two weeks.
0:02:41.63 → 0:03:02.70
At the time of recording, there are over 900 people on the waitlist, which is amazing. I'm so touched to see how many people are interested in the course. For those who are new to the podcast and to my work, there are a lot of you recently. Healing anxious attachment is my signature course. It's an eight week programme, but you have lifetime access to all of the materials.
0:03:02.81 → 0:03:41.54
This will be the fourth time that I'm running it and it really distils down everything that I know, teach, have practised myself and have guided so many other people through in moving from anxious attachment to a more secure way of experiencing relationships. So it's a very powerful programme and I highly recommend jumping on that waitlist via the link in the show notes if you're interested. Being on the Waitlist will just ensure that you get first access when registration opens and you'll also save $100. So if you're interested, definitely join the Waitlist just to give yourself the option. One stores open in less than two weeks.
0:03:42.15 → 0:04:00.69
The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is are you listening to my thoughts? I swear, it's like Stephanie knows exactly what I'm thinking and feeling and what's happening in my relationship. I've never listened to a podcast, audiobook or read a book that is this in line with my headspace? Everything offered is so incredibly helpful to the anxious mindset. So glad I found this.
0:04:00.73 → 0:04:09.43
Thank you. Thank you for that review. I always laugh when people say that because I do hear it a lot. Are you inside my head? How do you know exactly what I'm thinking and feeling?
0:04:09.59 → 0:04:47.29
And the honest answer is because I have had the same thoughts and feelings most of the time when I'm giving examples, they're drawn from my own experience. So you can rest assured that I have been very much there in the trenches with you. And to the extent that it feels like I'm inside your head, it's really just because I'm inside my own and I 100% understand what it's like. If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierigg.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my master classes. Okay, so with all of that out of the way, let's dive into five tips for supporting a fearful avoidant partner.
0:04:47.47 → 0:05:19.50
And just before I get into these five tips, I want to say that this is not about one person doing all of the heavy lifting in a relationship in terms of providing the emotional support, providing the stability, providing the regulation. Of course, we want to have a level of balance there. We want to have a level of investment and participation on both sides. And I know that the common complaint from anxious people is, why do I have to be the one supporting them? When are they going to support me?
0:05:19.68 → 0:06:01.48
I totally understand that. And as I mentioned earlier, this is one of a series of episodes. I do have episodes around what you can do as the partner to an anxious person to be more supportive. So it's not intended to suggest that it is your job to create safety for your partner, that it's your job to stabilise them, that it's your job to manage their emotional experience, their woundedness, their behaviour. It's not your job and at the same time, of course, in a relationship, we want to be supporting our partner and we want to be creating the space for them and us to grow and thrive together.
0:06:01.58 → 0:06:35.30
So it's one of those areas where both of the things can be true, it's not your job. And I would say that in a healthy relationship, we do want to be interested in the ways in which we can support our partner. With that being said, let's dive into these five tips. So the first tip that I want to offer you is this in your relationship with your fearful avoidant partner, prioritise honesty, openness and demonstrable trustworthiness whenever you can. So most fearful avoidant people have a strong betrayal wound.
0:06:35.44 → 0:07:15.35
Now, they might not have this in a conscious way, they might not say like, oh yeah, I've got a betrayal wound, I think everyone's going to betray me. But there does tend to be this sense of people can't be trusted and this real sense of guardedness and wariness around what it means to trust someone. So for a lot of fearful avoidant people, they will experience a resistance to that, a sense of if I trust you, you're going to hurt me. And if anything, the closer we get, the more power you have to hurt me. And so I'm even more wary of trusting the people that I really love and care about because of that power that they have to hurt me.
0:07:15.42 → 0:07:58.32
And that really stems from the origin story. For most fearful avoidant people is some sort of early environment where they were simultaneously drawn to and afraid of their primary caregivers. So I need you and I depend on you and I want to be close to you, but when I'm close to you, I feel like I can't trust in the safety of that connection and I need to pull away because I feel afraid. So there's this sense of the people who I'm closest to and who I love most and who I need are also the people with the power to hurt me most. So because of that, there is this real sense of guardedness.
0:07:58.46 → 0:08:39.02
And so in being the partner to someone with that wound, the way that you can be sensitive to it and to really support them, to heal that wound, is to be really honest and open and trustworthy by showing them, I have nothing to hide, I'm here, you can depend on me. And that's not going to be to your detriment to do that. I'm not trying to trick you, I'm not trying to betray you. And certainly to the extent that you show yourself to me or you depend on me, I'm not going to make you regret that, right? I'm not going to use that against you in any way.
0:08:39.12 → 0:09:26.32
I'm going to prove myself as being a safe space for you to be vulnerable and to really build that trust in both directions. So prioritising that honesty, openness and trustworthiness. And I would say kind of as a corollary to that, not being judgmental of them at all, really allowing them to let down their guard and be themselves will be really supportive and really healing for them. Okay, the next tip that I want to offer you is encourage your partner to voice their needs and boundaries proactively rather than reactively or once there's been some kind of rapture. So if you've been around for a while or you've gone back and listened to that episode around supporting an anxious partner, I gave a similar version of this.
0:09:26.45 → 0:10:02.42
So when it comes to needs and boundaries, this is an area where the fearful avoidant very much exhibits traits of both anxious and avoidant attachment. And they kind of pull from each and swing between extremes. So what I mean by that is initially a fearful avoidant person will typically suppress their needs, not voice their boundaries. Try and people, please try and make everyone happy. I don't want to upset anyone by asking for space, for example, oh, if I ask my partner for space, they're going to take it personally and they're going to get upset with me and I don't want to hurt them.
0:10:02.44 → 0:10:32.39
So I just won't ask for space. I'll just go with whatever they want, right? So that's the more typical anxious response of kind of fawning of deferring to the other person, of just going with the flow because I don't want to rock the boat. But what happens to the fearful avoidant is ultimately they reach boiling point and they get to this point where they really do need whatever it is they need. They need space, they need time to themselves, but they snap.
0:10:32.73 → 0:11:25.21
And so they then have this big response, and that snap tends to come out as a more avoidant response. So they might pull away, they might get angry, they might withdraw, they might try and leave the relationship, but it'll be this really big disproportionate response because they've been suppressing and suppressing and the volcano has been rumbling and then comes the eruption. Now, where that differs from an anxious person is that while anxious people tend to also suppress and then erupt, the eruption tends to be in an effort to connect. So it's this sense of, you don't even care about me, subtext, please care about me, please meet my needs, please see me, please listen to me. For the fearful avoidant, it tends to be you're trying to control me or you don't care about my needs and that's why I need to get away from you because you're not safe.
0:11:25.31 → 0:12:19.84
So you can see how they diverge in that respect and how the fearful avoidant leans on their more avoidant parts and their more avoidant strategies at the point of trigger. And that's when they pull away and have a big defensive and protective response. So all of that to say, if you as their partner, can really proactively, create a safe space and create a culture in your relationship where it is safe to talk about needs and boundaries and safe to express those and really honouring each other's needs and boundaries, then that is going to be really supportive for your partner. And again, that's going to help them in unlearning the old way, which can lead to really destructive behaviours and relearning something that's a bit more self responsible and conducive to healthy relationships. So what we wouldn't want to be doing here, for example, is making them feel bad for needing space.
0:12:19.99 → 0:12:51.15
Right? Again, I keep coming back to this example because it's definitely been one in my relationship. When we were first dating, my partner did feel really reluctant to voice his need for space because he was worried he would upset me. But what that would lead to is him not voicing his need for space but then reaching a point where he just had to take space but he wasn't communicating to me. And so I was left thinking that something was wrong because he was having this bigger reaction to the fact that he hadn't asked for what he needed.
0:12:51.35 → 0:13:28.34
And so it's almost like the part of him that really needed that space was just grabbing the wheel and driving the bus off a cliff because it felt ignored. And so we've now gotten to the point where we're able to talk about that and negotiate it and it's not threatening to either of us anymore. And that allows us to navigate our togetherness and our separateness in a way that meets both of our needs and that doesn't feel stressful or intimidating for us to talk about. Okay? So the next tip that I want to offer you is this find the middle ground between compassion and firm boundaries.
0:13:28.53 → 0:14:21.12
So this is really universal relationship advice. I've often talked about the need to toe that line between compassion for other people's pain and firm boundaries and accountability for poor behaviour. And nowhere is that more true than in this kind of relationship dynamic with someone who can have a lot of volatility, who can have a lot of reactivity, and who can engage in destructive behaviour. So what we want to do here is go, okay, I'm not going to make you into the villain, I'm not going to throw insults at you, I'm not going to say that there's something wrong with you. I can understand and have compassion for the inner turmoil that you're experiencing and how hard this is for you at the same time as having really clear boundaries around the kinds of behaviour that are not acceptable to me that don't work for me in relationship.
0:14:21.65 → 0:15:08.97
So an example of that might be if your partner does get triggered and pulls away and gives you the silent treatment for five days right, you can go, okay, I understand that you're in some sort of storm internally and that must be really hard and at the same time, that really doesn't work for me. That's not fair to me and it causes me a great deal of anxiety to feel like I can't reach you, to not know where we stand, for you to be refusing to engage with me. And so going forward, if we're going to be in this relationship, we need to find a better way of navigating that situation where you are really triggered that doesn't just leave me scrambling and alone and anxious. Right? So it's that combination, right.
0:15:09.01 → 0:15:30.96
I recognise that this is hard for you. I recognise that you might not be trying to hurt me, but that is the result of this behaviour and so we need to put some boundaries in place. So it really is that thing of can I have compassion for you without creating excuses for you? And as a side note, if you're more anxious, the boundaries piece is absolutely essential for you. And that will be your growth edge.
0:15:31.02 → 0:16:03.04
Because your tendency once you learn about their struggles and the things that are hard for them, your tendency is probably to overcompensate on the compassion and maybe let the boundaries go to go, oh, it's just because they are feeling this thing, or because they're scared of that or blah, blah, blah, right? Yes. We can absolutely have that empathy and compassion while also going, yeah, great, you're scared and this is how that makes me feel and that doesn't work for me. Right. We don't want to lose ourselves in the process of being compassionate and empathetic.
0:16:03.17 → 0:16:30.00
So have compassion while also holding onto those firm boundaries. That is both for you and for them. This is really important, okay. In my relationship, having those firm boundaries with my partner when there have been moments where he's engaged in behaviour that hasn't worked for me, that's been really important for me in not losing myself, right? In not, again, just suppressing my stuff in order to caretake for him or to accommodate his ups and downs.
0:16:30.06 → 0:17:07.22
But it's also been really, really important for him because it creates a level of accountability and there's actually a lot of trust and respect that is baked into a firm boundary, communicated with love, because it's saying, I'm here, I see you, I love you. And if we're going to make this work, here's what needs to happen, right? It is actually a commitment to making the relationship work rather than an effort to control someone or dictate to them how they have to behave or whatever else. Right? And having that firm loving boundary has been really helpful for my partner, in course, correcting him and going, okay, fair enough.
0:17:07.83 → 0:17:35.50
When I behave like that, that isn't fair to my partner. And I do love and care about this person and I don't want to jeopardise this. So it can kind of emerge as the voice of reason that brings the fearful avoidant back to centre and clarifies for them. What it is they really want and really encourages them to take responsibility in a way that feels safe. So the boundaries are for both of you and are really, really important in making this relationship work.
0:17:35.63 → 0:17:53.07
Okay, so the next tip is show that you recognise how much they care. Because they do. I mean, of course there's going to be individual variation. I can't speak for every single relationship and every single person, but on the whole, people with a fearful avoidance attachment style are deeply caring. They really are.
0:17:53.11 → 0:18:46.85
They're very emotional and they do care about the people they love so much. So when they're in relationship and they feel like they're being told all of the ways all the time that they're doing it wrong and that they're not enough or that they keep making mistakes, they keep hurting someone, they can feel really demoralised. And that really feeds into their inner critic, which typically is pretty relentless, their sense of guilt and shame, which runs rampant. And that can really lead them to pull away from a relationship and they pull away often from a place of I don't want to hurt this person, I see how much I'm hurting them. So they can have a lot of, as I said, that inner critic, that self blame, that sense of brokenness and defectiveness can be really profound for their fearful avoidant.
0:18:46.93 → 0:19:42.03
So what you can do as their partner to support them and to counteract some of that self criticism, that they tend to be pretty harsh on themselves, is really show that you recognise how much they care. Show that you recognise their effort, the ways that they show love, the ways that they show up for you, all of the things that you appreciate, admire, respect about them. Because I can tell you that internally, the scales are tipped so far in favour of all of the negatives and that will be irrespective of what you're doing. That will be their internal dialogue in 99% of cases. So if you can really lead with showing them how much you really care for, respect, admire, appreciate them, that's going to be really healing for them and will go a long way in helping with all the other stuff, right?
0:19:42.12 → 0:20:05.16
Cultivating trust, allowing them to feel safe, to voice needs and so on and so forth. So be proactive in voicing those things. Now, again, that's good relationship advice across the board, but it's certainly really important in this case. And last but not least, as much as possible, try to be patient with them. Now, I know that that might feel like unfair advice and I get that.
0:20:05.34 → 0:20:48.21
And that advice is 100% subject to the need to have firm boundaries, the need to create accountability, the need to advocate for yourself. I'm certainly not suggesting that your patience should mean making excuses for bad behaviour, for breaches of trust, for anything like that, but within reason, can you be patient with your partner? Can you understand how deep this stuff runs? Can you understand that when they are acting out, they are acting out from a place of visceral fear and that it will take time to repatten that and to rewire that and to rebuild that and learn new ways of being. So it's not something that's going to happen overnight.
0:20:48.26 → 0:21:39.62
It's not something that they can just flip a switch off the back of one conversation that you guys have about needs and boundaries and all of a sudden it's going to be fixed, right? If you've listened to my work for a while, you know that for you author them, this stuff runs deep. And it is, it's visceral, primal, fear based stuff and it's often not the domain of our rational brain. So giving them some grace and being patient while, as I said, still having boundaries and still creating accountability, but not saying, I told you not to storm out of the room when you get frustrated. Yes, of course, in an ideal world, we'd only have to have those conversations once, but again, within reason, I think we have to be understanding of the fact that it does take time to shift these things.
0:21:39.72 → 0:22:32.06
And the more that we can foster that change from a place of love and acceptance and care and respect, the more effective that's going to be. And I promise you that whatever frustration you have with your partner pales in comparison to the frustration they have with themselves. That is, again, I would say true in 99% of cases. For the fearful avoidant, they really are so hard on themselves. And so, as much as possible, if you can be patient, if you can show them that you're not going anywhere, that you're there for them, that you love them, you see them and you accept them, while also striving for growth together and separately, that will really pay dividends for your connection and your bond together.
0:22:32.51 → 0:23:01.72
So I hope that that's been helpful. Whether you're listening as someone in relationship with a fearful avoidant partner, whether you are fearful avoidant yourself and you might want to share this with a partner, or whether you're listening as a bystander, and it might just give you some food for thought in your own relationship. So, as always, I'd be super grateful if you could leave a five star rating or a review. It really does help so much, but otherwise, I look forward to seeing you later in the week for our Q and A episode. Thanks guys.
0:23:03.21 → 0:23:25.76
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com and if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
“I’m anxious, he’s avoidant. Is it weird that I want more sex than him?”
In this episode, I'm answering the question of "I'm anxious, he's avoidant. Is it weird that I want more sex than him?"
In this episode, I'm answering the question of "I'm anxious, he's avoidant. Is it weird that I want more sex than him?"
WHAT WE COVER:
anxious-avoidant sexual dynamics
the sexual honeymoon period and what happens afterward
why avoidant partners withdraw sexually
how anxiously attached people use sex for validation
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:37.36 → 0:01:03.07
Is it weird that I want more sex than him? So this is something that I get asked a lot, and I have touched on this dynamic before on the show, but given the frequency with which I get variations on this question, I think it's important to devote a whole episode to unpacking it. And spoiler alert, it's not weird at all. This dynamic is actually extremely common. I would say more common than not.
0:01:03.19 → 0:01:53.61
So if you are someone in an anxious avoidant relationship and you have noticed a mismatch in Libido that looks like the anxious partner wanting sex a lot more than the avoidant partner does, rest assured, you're not alone. It's actually very, very common. So I'm hoping that in today's episode, I can unpack for you why that's not weird, why it actually makes a lot of sense, and what the drivers are of that dynamic and how you can work with it rather than exacerbating it. Because I think most people, without the knowledge and awareness of what's going on, will personalise this dynamic and act out from a place of hurt and make it a lot worse. And that can be really challenging because we get stuck there.
0:01:53.65 → 0:02:17.73
So that's what we're talking about today. Before we dive into that, a couple of quick announcements. The first being just another reminder that the waitlist for Healing Anxious Attachment is open, as at the time of recording, there are over 500 people already on the waitlist, which is amazing for anyone who's new around here, and I know there are a lot of you who are new. Healing anxious attachment is my signature programme. It's an eight week course.
0:02:17.93 → 0:02:50.63
I run it a couple of times a year and being on the waitlist is a no obligation thing. It's just that you'll get notified first when doors open and you'll also access discounted pricing for enrollment, so definitely cheque that out. If you're keen to know more, the link is in the show notes. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is my only complaint is there aren't more episodes. I wish I found this podcast earlier, as it would have certainly healed a lot of past hurt a lot quicker.
0:02:50.73 → 0:03:02.18
I've never felt so heard and seen by a podcast. I think there's a lot of solace in knowing I'm not alone with my thoughts and behaviours now. Healing those. Thanks to unattachment. Thank you so much for your beautiful review.
0:03:02.23 → 0:03:40.60
I'm so pleased that you feel so heard and seen by what I share here. I think that, as you say, there is a lot of solace in knowing that you're not alone and that there's another way available to you. So I'm glad that's been your experience. If that was your review, if you could please send an email to podcast@stephanierigg.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my master classes. And if you want the chance to have your review read out and to get a freebie if you just leave a review on Apple podcasts unfortunately, it's only Apple podcasts that qualifies, as the other platforms don't allow for reviews.
0:03:40.71 → 0:04:00.12
But if you leave a review on Apple podcasts, I select one at random for each episode with two episodes a week. That means you've got two chances each week to be selected. And for anyone who has left a review whose review I haven't read out, please know that I read every single one of them. And I am so appreciative of you and your support. So thank you.
0:04:00.57 → 0:04:31.09
So let's look at how this usually plays out. Here's what I see time and time and time again. And to be very frank with you, I've experienced it myself, so I get it. At the beginning of an anxious avoidant relationship, you'll usually have a lot of sexual intensity. So you're going to have lots of chemistry, connection, passion, fireworks, hunger, lust, infatuation all of that sense of I can't get enough of you.
0:04:31.24 → 0:05:03.32
And that's kind of in all respects, but particularly sexually. And that feels really good for both people. The anxious person loves the feeling of being wanted and chosen and desired. That's like balm to the soul of the anxious partner. And the avoidant person gets a lot out of that too, because it's fun and they feel wanted and they feel desired and they feel successful, and they get all of the upside of the juiciness of that honeymoon period before their triggers set in.
0:05:03.42 → 0:05:39.81
So on both sides, that initial period is really exhilarating and rewarding. What tends to happen is that as the relationship becomes more serious, that could be anywhere from a month in to six months in to a year in, just depending on the arc of your particular relationship. As things become more serious, as that initial chemical rush tapers off, what will typically happen is the avoidant partner starts to pull away sexually. So they might have less interest in having sex. They might initiate sex less, they might just be less engaged in sex.
0:05:39.94 → 0:06:25.75
They might experience performance anxiety or other performance related challenges sexually. And so there are these really noticeable drop offs in their interest level in sex. And for the anxious partner, that sends the alarm bells ringing big time. Because not only did that initial period of sexual intensity feel really good for the anxious person, but the anxious person has a tendency to make it mean something that the avoidant person doesn't in other words, for the anxious partner, it's like, oh, we have this incredible sexual chemistry. That means that we have an incredible connection, that means that we're meant to be together, that means that I've never felt anything like this before, therefore you're the one.
0:06:25.90 → 0:06:45.93
This is serious, this is it. And that is all very exciting for the anxious person. So they get very attached as a result of that sexual intensity. When that sexual intensity shifts and all of a sudden is a little lacking, the anxious person internalises that and starts to panic, go, what have I done? I've done something wrong.
0:06:45.97 → 0:07:27.93
They're losing interest in me, they must not be attracted to me. Maybe they liked me at the beginning, but then I didn't perform well enough for them sexually and so they're no longer interested in having sex with me for that reason, I didn't do a good enough job. The anxious person's tendency to make everything about their failings and their unworthiness and their not good enoughness, very much bubbles to the surface here. And so the anxious person will typically test. So they'll notice this thing, they'll start to panic in their head and tell themselves the story and then they'll start to try and gather evidence and go, okay, is this just in my head or is it real?
0:07:28.00 → 0:08:19.08
Is this legit? And so what do they do? They'll maybe start to be more flirtatious with their partner or try to initiate sex more, try to seduce them or be more affectionate, try and hug and kiss them, all of those things to gauge the response, to see, are they really pulling away or am I making this up? And the avoidant person, possibly without realising it, receives all of that intensity, anxiety, escalated energy around sex as pressure, and so they're likely to respond to that by withdrawing further, which cements the anxious person's read of the situation as they've lost interest in me sexually. And for the anxious person, it's a very short walk from they've lost interest in me sexually to they're going to leave me, they don't want me anymore, I'm no longer useful to them.
0:08:19.21 → 0:09:24.07
Whatever connection we had is slipping away from me and I feel really out of control and panicked and like I've done something but I don't know what. So, as you can probably imagine, and I'm sure a lot of you listening have experienced this, and as I said, so have I, so I get it. And it's really challenging because as much as we can intellectually understand that that might not be about us, that might be about their intimacy fears, that might be about their inability to combine sex and love without feeling intensely, vulnerable in a way that leads their system to go into shutdown and protective mode as much as we can intellectualise that, it's really still very tender to our wounds, our unworthiness wounds. The part of us that just wants to be wanted and chosen and who feels like they had that and then it got taken away from them through no fault of their own. So don't underestimate how big this is in terms of the emotional imprint of it.
0:09:24.24 → 0:09:58.85
And you'll need to really approach it with a lot of self compassion because it's really easy to personalise it. It's really easy to make it all about you and take it as unequivocal evidence in support of those really painful stories about yourself that you're not good enough that no one's ever going to want you. That when you show yourself to someone, they reject you. That nothing you do is good enough to get someone's attention and keep it. Whatever the stories are, there are a lot of them and this is a vulnerable area where we can really spiral in our self worth.
0:09:59.02 → 0:10:34.95
So to return to the essence of the question, is it weird that I want more sex than him? No, not at all. It's very common because of that trajectory of sexual intensity followed by sexual withdrawal by the avoidant partner. Then the anxious person, when faced with the insecurity that comes with that fallout, wants sex more than ever because sex is equal to validation, sex is equal to reassurance sex, alleviates that fear of rejection or that feeling of rejection that has kind of infected the relationship. So it's actually very common.
0:10:35.02 → 0:11:10.45
And if anything, the more he pulls away, the more you're going to want sex for that reason that you just want the feeling of being wanted. So what do we do with all of this? It might feel overwhelming to hear me share what drives that pattern and how very common it is. And I'm not going to mislead you by saying that it's an easy solution. I think the honest truth would be to say that both people need to have a level of awareness and willingness to be vulnerable about this.
0:11:10.60 → 0:12:42.96
And so, while on the anxious side, you're probably spending a lot of time and energy ruminating over it, you will need a level of buy in from your avoidant partner in finding a way to experience sex together that works for you both, that feels safe and comfortable, that meets both of your needs and that will require you to talk about it. Unfortunately, as much as we all hate talking about sex and having those messy, vulnerable conversations, it's really a necessity in any relationship, but particularly in one where all of this emotional density is present in your sexual dynamic. So as much as possible on the anxious side, depersonalising it will help because it will allow you to show up to those conversations vulnerably without being in this state of panic and stress and accusation and self protection, which will only elicit a similarly reactive and defensive response from your partner. The other final piece that I'll suggest for again the anxious partner in this is cheque in with yourself around sex. When you're wanting sex from your partner when you're feeling like you'd want to initiate sex, just cheque in with yourself on whether you want sex or whether you want to feel wanted.
0:12:43.33 → 0:13:25.92
Because if it's the latter, then what you're really wanting is reassurance or validation that everything's okay. And that might point to a broader unmet need in the relationship, that you can get met in other ways and potentially healthier ways, rather than leaning on sex as an indirect way to get that validation of reassurance. So asking yourself, do I actually want sex right now? Or do I want to feel wanted by my partner? And that will again allow you to just have greater clarity for yourself around what the need is, and in so doing have a much better chance of getting that need met in a way that works for you, for your partner, for the relationship.
0:13:26.53 → 0:14:18.39
So I hope that that has been helpful in unpacking that dynamic that is so very common, giving you a bit of an understanding of why that happens and what drives it and some sense of what you can do and what not to do if you find yourself in that situation and you're needing to tackle it. I should also say I have a master class on my website called Sex and Attachment, which is I think it's about 90 minutes and goes into all of this obviously in a lot more detail. I do also have a module in my Healing Anxious Attachment course around building a secure sexuality. So if you are wanting to go deeper on this topic, I definitely suggest checking either the Sex and Attachment Masterclass, which is Instant access. You can get that on my website or as I said at the start, joining that waitlist for Healing Anxious Attachment.
0:14:18.52 → 0:14:50.64
If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd love for you to leave a five star rating and a review. As I said, it does really help so much in getting the word out and helping the show continue to grow, but otherwise I look forward to seeing you next week. Thanks guys. Thanks for joining me for this episode of Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com and if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating.
0:14:50.70 --> 0:14:55.48
It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
How to Initiate Hard Conversations with an Avoidant Partner
In today's Q&A episode, I'm sharing tips for initiating hard conversations with an avoidant partner. This is a question I get a lot - how to express needs to an avoidant partner, how to set boundaries, how to share feedback. These conversations are already intimidating for many anxiously attached folks, and when combined with the sensitivities of the avoidant partner, can be a perfect storm.
In today's Q&A episode, I'm sharing tips for initiating hard conversations with an avoidant partner.
This is a question I get a lot - how to express needs to an avoidant partner, how to set boundaries, how to share feedback. These conversations are already intimidating for many anxiously attached folks, and when combined with the sensitivities of the avoidant partner, can be a perfect storm.
WHAT WE COVER:
how to set yourself up for success in initiating hard conversations
the importance of a regulated nervous system
tips for reaching a mutually beneficial outcome
how to cultivate greater safety during conflict & challenging conversations
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:28.17 → 0:01:03.89
Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. In today's episode, I'm going to be answering the community question of how do I initiate hard conversations with my avoidant partner? So this is a question that I get variations on all the time, this question of how do I bring up my needs with an avoidant partner, how do I share how I'm feeling or share feedback with an avoidant partner without scaring them away? And so I know that it's something that a lot of people struggle with, obviously oftentimes more anxious leaning people struggle with.
0:01:04.00 → 0:02:03.11
And I think that that comes from a confluence of factors. It's not only that avoidant leaning partners can be sensitive to criticism and to those conversations and might have resistance to them. But I think we also need to acknowledge that the starting point for more anxious leaning people is really struggling to take up space, to find their voice, to advocate for themselves, to express needs, to express boundaries. So we find this kind of double edged sword of it being already really intimidating a concept for an anxious person, and then sometimes not being met with the response that you might have hoped for from a more avoidant leaning partner. So it can lead to these really negative cycles, these downward spirals in the relationship whereby it quickly devolves into kind of attack, defend, shut down escalation.
0:02:03.29 → 0:02:53.06
And obviously nothing good comes of that kind of dynamic. It becomes very ineffective very quickly and whatever underlying issues or things needed to be talked about tend to just remain unaddressed and fester until the next time that someone gets triggered and it all becomes a bit more amplified and disregulated. And we all know how that story ends. So in this episode, I'm going to be giving you some really practical, straightforward, easy to implement tips on how you can set yourself up for success in initiating and then having hard conversations with a more avoided leaning partner. And I will say at the outset that this is really best practise for initiating a hard conversation with anyone.
0:02:53.67 → 0:03:44.98
It's not just an avoidant thing. But I think we can acknowledge that there can be sensitivity from more avoidant leaning people on having conversations that they anticipate, might be emotionally dense, or might be an opportunity for their partner to criticise them, to blame them, to tell them all the things that they're not doing right, because they do have heightened sensitivity around that. So, as I said, applicable for everyone, but especially helpful if you are a more anxious leaning person in relationship with a more avoidant leaning person. Before we dive into that, a couple of quick announcements you may have heard me earlier in the week, announce that The Waitlist is now open for healing anxious attachment. Probably got about 150 people on the Waitlist in the last couple of days, which is amazing.
0:03:45.43 → 0:04:10.34
If you want to join the Waitlist, the next round of the programme will be opening for enrollment next month and The Waitlist entitles you to a discount and first access. So jump on the waitlist. That's all in the show notes. If you want to cheque out the course when it opens next month, the second quick announcement is just to share the featured review. It's quite a long one, so I'm going to give you a shortened version.
0:04:10.48 → 0:04:33.74
It says, I've been going through a really tough year and I've sampled many relationship podcasts for ideas and advice. When I came across on Attachment, I immediately knew I'd stumbled upon a gem. When I listen, I feel as if Stephanie speaking directly to me, directly to my experience. A recent episode, My ex moved on immediately and I can't help but take it personally, was filled with so much needed insight that I was shocked at how much it applied to my situation. I listened to it twice in a row.
0:04:33.80 → 0:04:43.23
Amazing. Thank you, Stephanie. I look forward to hearing each and every episode as I journey towards healing and self improvement. Thank you for that beautiful review. I really appreciate it.
0:04:43.32 → 0:05:15.63
If that was your review. If you just send an email to podcast@stephanierig.com, my team will set you up with free access to one of my master classes as a way to say thank you. Okay, so let's dive into how to initiate hard conversations with an avoidant partner. So I'm going to give you six tips or steps here. But before I do that, I just want to offer you an overarching piece of guidance, let's say, which is it's really, really important that your partner feels that they have choice.
0:05:16.45 → 0:06:15.56
Again, this is not just an avoidant thing, but it's especially important for an avoidant person because when we feel at a nervous system level, like we don't have choice, like we're trapped, like we're stuck, like we're being controlled, we go very quickly into fear and self protection. So throughout all of these, you'll notice that choice is really important and that's a really important thing to bear in mind. What we really want to avoid is any sense of forcing someone, coercing someone into having a conversation that they're not in a position to have. Because as much as that might seem frustrating or unfair to you, you're never going to get what you need. If you are forcing someone to have a conversation against their will because they are already back up against the wall, they're already in a state of disregulation and fear and self protection.
0:06:15.67 → 0:06:46.06
And whatever outcome you're hoping for, which I assume is something connective and growth oriented, is really, really hard to achieve in that state. You can think about it like the gates are already shut once they're in that state of Dysregulation. So we really want to get ourselves set up well for success here and start on the right foot. So with that being said, step one, make sure that you ask for permission when you want to have a hard conversation. Again, this goes for everyone.
0:06:46.11 → 0:07:32.11
This is just really good Practise. So rather than just saying we need to talk, or launching straight into whatever it is you want to say, lead with, hey, do you have time to talk at some point today? There's something that I'd like to chat to you about or there's something I'd like to share or whatever it is right, but saying when suits you to have a chat and waiting for their response, so it might not be right then and right there. And you as a more anxious leaning person may struggle with that because there tends to be, on the anxious side a lot of urgency around whatever is arising in you, whatever emotion is present. It's like it has to be right now and we need to talk about it and we need to fix it immediately or else it's not going to be okay.
0:07:32.18 → 0:08:16.57
Because I'm probably overheating on the inside in this state of high anxiety and panic, and that is a very urgent state. But we need to recognise that coming at someone with that energy of urgency and intensity again, is not going to be a good starting point for conversation. So asking for permission when suits you to have a conversation. And if they say, I'm a little busy at the moment or I'm tired right now, you kind of have to respect that. I'll add that if they just say, oh, I don't know, full stop and don't give you anything back, then you can proceed to set a boundary and say, well, can you please let me know when soothes over the next day or two?
0:08:16.64 → 0:09:06.99
Because this is important to me and you want to have some sort of resolution there. Because I think if it is left open, there's a good chance that you're going to continue to bubble away and escalate your own internal emotional state, which again is going to be detrimental to the conversation when you eventually have it. So get some clarity around when you're going to have the conversation, but also be open to that not being immediately given that that does fall into that category of kind of forcing or coercing someone to have a conversation when it suits you. Okay, the next tip is regulate yourself. So try as much as possible to be kind of relaxed and regulated and calm and grounded and clear all of those good words when you go into this conversation.
0:09:07.09 → 0:09:47.12
Now, that will be hard for a lot of anxious leaning people, particularly if you're nervous about the conversation, particularly if you've had similar conversations in the past that haven't gone terribly well. And so you're kind of subconsciously bracing for conflict or bracing for pushback or defensiveness or whatever else. But just know that if you're in that really constricted state where you are kind of braced, your partner is going to read that before you even open your mouth. Your nervous systems are just going to clock onto each other. And again, it's like your animals in in threat mode when that happens.
0:09:47.22 → 0:10:30.70
And it's really, really hard to have a productive, empathetic, nuanced, you know, multiple perspectives conversation where you can be collaborative and find your way to a mutually agreeable resolution. Really hard to do that when you're both in fear. So try as much as possible to regulate yourself. Maybe that looks like going for a walk or a run before the conversation, doing some other thing that brings your system down to a level of relative regulation, calm, groundedness, so that you're not teetering on the edge at the very outset of the conversation. The next tip is to be both clear and open minded.
0:10:30.81 → 0:11:09.44
Okay? So clear in the sense of I know what I want to share and say I've reflected on that, I've got clarity around what the essence of my concern is. So I'm not just going to go in there and spew out all of this jumbled, highly emotional stream of consciousness stuff that's going to get in the way of what I'm really trying to articulate. So I've taken responsibility for sifting through all of my own stories and emotions and triggers and I've gotten to the heart of what I need to share. So I'm clear around that and at the same time, be open.
0:11:09.57 → 0:11:50.99
Open minded, not overly rigid, not reading off a mental script and needing to get something specific back from them. Because I think that when we go in with that level of expectation and control, then it's really hard for us to be flexible around where the conversation goes. And again, if we're really looking to get to a mutually agreeable outcome, we do need to recognise that we're not the only person in the equation and that we need to have a level of openness and curiosity about the other person's perspective. So be both clear and open minded. Be open to something happening that you've never contemplated before.
0:11:51.06 → 0:12:33.00
I think so many of us go, oh, I know exactly how they're going to respond and I know if I say that, then they'll say that. And maybe that the more you go into it with that expectation, I promise you're just going to get that. You're going to get that back because there's no space for anything different when you are in that really narrow tunnel visioned kind of mindset around these conversations. And again, your nervous system is just conveying so much information to their nervous system that it becomes this self fulfilling prophecy and again, you eliminate the possibility of other outcomes. Okay, the next tip is to keep it to one issue.
0:12:33.13 → 0:13:09.99
I think the tendency with a lot of anxious people is I suppress everything. I don't talk about it, I don't talk about my feelings. And then as soon as I get a window of opportunity, I come out with my long list of complaints that I have been keeping a lid on. And so I might start with, you were late home last night and end up over here with ten different issues. And as much as it feels really important to share those things, and I know that it's hard to ask for the conversation, so once you've done that, it's really tempting to just lay everything on the table.
0:13:10.57 → 0:13:20.79
It feels like an onslaught for the other person. Imagine it. It's like you're sitting there and suddenly there's like 20 arrows flying at you. And what are you going to do? You're going to duck for cover?
0:13:20.91 → 0:13:41.90
You're going to get defensive and protective because that's a lot to receive. So try and keep it to one issue. Remind your sister, this isn't the last conversation I ever get to have with this person. Again, when we're in fear, it all becomes very global and extreme. I've got to talk about it now because it feels extremely important and urgent.
0:13:42.04 → 0:14:34.08
Just keep it to one issue, I promise you'll, at least then have a much better shot at getting that one issue resolved. Whereas if you start to bring in the shopping list of all of the other things, then there's a really good chance none of it will get resolved and you'll be more disconnected as a result. The next tip is to be prepared to take a break if needed. This is really standard advice I give to everyone when we're talking about conflict and relationships, but it's particularly important for anxious avoidant couples if you get dysregulated, meaning if one or both of you is starting to exhibit signs of a stress response and it's getting in the way of your conversation being productive, take a break. There's no use in proceeding and trying to push through that because you are just pushing yourselves into a more heightened emotional state.
0:14:34.13 → 0:14:52.20
And again, nothing good comes of it. You're not going to get the outcome that you want from that place. So be prepared to take a break, to slow down, to pause, to take space from each other. Let's take 20 minutes to cool down and then come back to the conversation. So be prepared to do that.
0:14:52.25 → 0:15:13.48
Again, for the anxious person, that's hard because you feel like they're running away from the conversation. You feel like they're trying to kind of emotionally abandon you is often the feeling that when you're really upset, they want to pull away and withdraw. So please know that them needing to do that is about regulating themselves. It's actually not about you. They're not running away from you.
0:15:13.50 → 0:15:54.95
They're sort of retreating to their safe place. And as frustrating as that is, it's actually in the best interest of the relationship and the conversation. So be prepared to take a break if needed, obviously with the intention of returning to the conversation when the heat has come down a little. And the last tip is just to appreciate and acknowledge their willingness to be uncomfortable. So if you do have this conversation and you manage to kind of get to a resolution, get to an end point, really express your appreciation, say, I know that these conversations are hard for you, so I really appreciate you sticking it out, and you being willing to talk through this stuff with me because it means a lot to me, and I really, really appreciate it.
0:15:55.04 → 0:16:29.06
And that kind of acknowledgement will be meaningful and it's really validating. So I think that that's a good thing to do, to show them that you see that and that you're appreciative rather than, again, just coming out of the whole time if you're trying to run away or you're not. Listening to me or all of these things that again will be reinforcing on their side, that these conversations are bad and unsafe and should be avoided at all costs. We want to rewrite that story for both of your sakes. We want to have these experiences of actually hard conversations.
0:16:29.12 → 0:17:07.83
Yeah, they might be uncomfortable, but we can do uncomfortable. We can create safety in that discomfort and create new possibilities for our relationship. So I hope that that's been helpful. Obviously, that's far from being an exhaustive list, we could very easily have several episodes on having hard conversations and conflict strategy and tips around that in an anxious, avoidant dynamic. But I think if you were to implement those six tips, you'll really be in a much better position than just going in with all of the urgency and intensity and stress and attack kind of mode.
0:17:07.93 → 0:17:30.01
You've got a much better shot at having a productive, connective, you know, growth oriented conversation where you're actually able to hear each other and find a solution. So I hope that that's been helpful. I hope that you've learned something. If you enjoyed this episode, as always, super appreciative. If you can leave a five star rating or a review, it really does help so much, but otherwise I will see you again next week.
“My ex moved on immediately post break-up and I can’t help but take it personally.”
In today's Q&A episode, I'm answering the question of "My ex moved on immediately post break-up and I can't help but take it personally." This is a really common pain point for people post-break-up, so don't beat yourself up if you're in this situation (or have been there in the past!)
In today's Q&A episode, I'm answering the question of "My ex moved on immediately post break-up and I can't help but take it personally."
This is a really common pain point for people post-break-up, so don't beat yourself up if you're in this situation (or have been there in the past!)
WHAT WE COVER:
why it's normal to feel hurt by a partner moving on faster than we do
why it's so important to monitor the stories we tell ourselves post break-up
reasons why people process break-ups differently
how anxious vs avoidant people tend to move through the break-up period
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:28.01 → 0:01:06.55
Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. In today's episode, I'm going to be answering the community question of my ex moved on immediately postbreak up, and I can't help but take it personally. Do you have any advice? So this is something that I hear a lot, and it can obviously feel like a twisting of the dagger when we're already in a lot of pain to see our ex, whether it's moving on or just seeming to. Be coping better than we are after a breakup when we're really in the thick of it and we're grieving and we're hurt and we're lost and confused.
0:01:06.73 → 0:01:47.76
To see something pop up on social media or to hear about it or to even hear it directly from your ex that they're seeing someone new or that life is going well for them. It's really easy to take that and make it mean something about us. And that can really prolong our suffering at a time when we're already in a lot of pain and hurt. So that's what we're going to be talking about today, understanding that experience a little more where you can go as stray there, and some reframes to help you get through that experience, even though it will still be challenging and painful. But hopefully we can cut it off there and not make it mean something about us as a person.
0:01:48.37 → 0:02:28.73
Before I dive into that, a couple of quick announcements. The first being that today is the last day to access the sale that I've been running, which is 50% off all of my Masterclasses, which are on boundaries, sex and attachment, and navigating anxious, avoidant relationships. Those are all only $44 each and there's heaps of value in them, so definitely cheque them out. If you're interested. You can also get 50% off my Higher Love course, which is a full length six module plus bonuses course on breakups and really moving through a breakup in the healthiest, most supported way possible and coming out the other side better than before.
0:02:28.80 → 0:03:11.13
So if any of those things tickle your fancy, today is the last day to take advantage of that discount and all of that's linked in the show notes. The other quick announcement is just to share the review of the week, which is I discovered Stephanie's podcast by chance a few months ago when I was trying to work out my relationship and had just started therapy. Her soothing voice and her shortened to the point episodes have really helped me reconsider myself as an anxiously attached person and to understand my continuous fear of being abandoned in a sentimental relationship. Understanding other attachment types and learning better ways to interact with an avoidant partner has also brought a certain level of peace and compassion towards myself and my relationship. I couldn't be more grateful for Stephanie's wise and kind words every week.
0:03:11.20 → 0:03:30.12
Thank you. Thank you so much for that beautiful review. I'm so pleased to hear that. I love how you describe a level of peace and compassion towards yourself and your relationship from diving into this work. I think that is really the goal, and I'm glad to have been able to support you in some small way with the podcast.
0:03:30.26 → 0:04:02.66
If that was your review, if you could just send an email to podcast@stephanierug.com. My team will set you up with free access to one of my Master classes as a way to say thank you. Okay, so let's dive into this question of I've just seen that my ex has moved on immediately after our breakup, and I can't help but take it personally. So as a starting point, I just want to validate that this sucks, right? It's painful, and it's really easy to feel hurt by that and to feel kind of personally victimised by it.
0:04:02.76 → 0:04:29.80
I just want to really normalise all of those feelings. I think, irrespective of the circumstances of a breakup. Even if you broke up with them, even if it was really amicable, all of that stuff, even if you're kind of comfortable with the breakup and, you know it's the right thing. I think there's always going to be a bit of sting or a little bit of emotional something when we see our ex with someone new. I think that's really normal.
0:04:29.91 → 0:05:03.77
And so the starting point is don't beat yourself up too much for having an emotional response when you see your ex moving on and dating someone new. I think that obviously, if the circumstances are such that they broke up with you, you're really sad about it and you didn't want the relationship to end. It's very fresh and raw and you're still in the thick of it. To see them with someone new in that circumstance is devastating. And again, that's really understandable.
0:05:03.85 → 0:05:26.64
So don't feel like you shouldn't feel that way. Don't judge that feeling because I think that's a very natural thing to feel. What I do want to invite you to reflect on and really monitor is where we take that feeling of I'm really upset about this. I'm hurt, I'm sad, and we make that mean something about us. Okay, so we go, oh, they're dating someone new.
0:05:26.69 → 0:05:37.08
That means that they're not even sad about the relationship ending. They never even cared about me. They never loved me. A whole relationship was a sham. I feel like an idiot because I'm upset and they're not.
0:05:37.45 → 0:05:59.72
This new person that they're dating must be so much better than me, more attractive, more emotionally stable, less needy, whatever. The things I'm telling myself, they're going to make all of the changes with this new person that they wouldn't make for me. Maybe I was actually the problem after all. Maybe I shouldn't have asked for all of those things. All of that stuff.
0:05:59.82 → 0:06:41.26
We can spiral. Now, you may relate to none of that or some of that or all of that, but those are the sorts of things that I hear. And so I just want to shine a light on that and say that's where we cause our own suffering, right? Those stories are where the suffering lives and lives on because we can really get stuck there and spin around in that for a long time because we're taking something that may have very little to do with us a lot of the time and making it mean something about us at a very fundamental level. And that's a surefire way to erode self worth, to beat ourselves when we're already down.
0:06:41.31 → 0:07:14.58
And that's really the opposite of what we need at that time. So with that as an overarching point, the other thing I'll say is there are many, many reasons why someone, some people might move on more quickly than others. Okay, so this is part of the work. Whenever we're looking at the stories we tell ourselves, we can poke holes in our own stories and go, okay, that probably doesn't necessarily mean that I can acknowledge that other versions of this exist. What might they be?
0:07:14.63 → 0:07:26.34
So I'm going to give you some of them. They may not have processed the breakup or their grief, okay? They may have just put a lid on it. They're blocking it out. They're distracting themselves.
0:07:26.44 → 0:07:54.36
They're numbing out whatever they're doing. People process emotions in different ways, particularly if they are more avoidant leaning. They're not going to experience that initial post breakup in the same way that you, as a more anxious leaning person would. So acknowledge that that you can't expect them to have the same process as you. And there's a good chance that if it's very fresh that you'll go in different directions post breakup.
0:07:54.39 → 0:08:36.92
So a more avoidant leaning person is likely to put a lid on those emotions and channel their energy into distraction. Whether that's like throwing themselves into work or becoming very social all of a sudden or taking up a new pursuit or a new hobby, they're going to be putting that energy into something. Whereas a more anxious leaning person is likely to be very in the thick of their emotions and their grief and that feeling of longing and loss with the void that has been created by the relationship ending. So that might be one reason they may not have processed the breakup. Alternatively, they may have been processing it in advance of the relationship ending.
0:08:37.03 → 0:09:15.29
So what often happens is if a relationship is kind of on its last legs for a few months or even years in some cases, there can be a process of disengagement whereby one or both people sort of stop trying. And there's this sense of anticipation that you both know that it's coming. Maybe just one person knows that it's coming and they've made the decision to end the relationship before they actually pull the trigger. And so there is a gradual kind of disconnection and disengagement. Some people, if they've been in that situation, may have been processing their feelings around the relationship ending for a while before it actually did.
0:09:15.41 → 0:10:02.61
And that may mean that they feel kind of okay after the breakup, because the breakup provides more relief than it does grief, at least initially. Again, that's not about you, that's just about someone else's emotional process and the timing of that, the journey that they've been on. The third thing I'd say is you don't really have actual visibility over what they're experiencing, so it's likely that what you know about where they're at is gleaned from social media or word of mouth or mutual friends or even what they might have shared with you. But that's always going to be kind of biassed. You're seeing what they want you to see, you're knowing what they want you to know.
0:10:02.75 → 0:10:17.52
So it's not necessarily the full picture. Right? I'll add the caveat there. That doesn't give you an invitation to go and interrogate them and say, what are you really feeling? Or ruminate on whether they're actually really upset, but they're just not showing it.
0:10:17.65 → 0:10:41.57
It's just to say that we don't really know. So let's not make stories from imperfect information because it's just not helpful for you. What I'll say to sort of wrap this up is please just understand that if you are more anxiously attached, you will tend to spin out post breakup, right? You will really struggle with a breakup. I have an episode from last year on.
0:10:41.66 → 0:11:17.81
Five reasons why anxiously attached people struggle with breakups. And that's definitely a good one to cheque out because I dive into this in more detail there. But please just don't compare your breakup trajectory, your arc, with that of a more avoided leaning partner, because it is just not comparing apples with apples. And it's really, really unhelpful in the same way that in a relationship it's not helpful for me to project my worldview, my experience onto your behaviour and make it mean what it would mean if I did it. You're coming from totally different places, so just understand that your emotional processing is different.
0:11:17.85 → 0:11:48.91
The way that you relate to being in relationship versus being alone is totally different. So please don't expect it to look the same and then spin out and make yourself feel awful and really beat yourself up when they behave differently to how you would after a breakup. As I said, it's not comparing apples with apples. It's not a fair comparison. You have imperfect information, so please don't craft these awful, painful personal stories that exacerbate your pain and keep you stuck.
0:11:49.49 → 0:12:15.12
This is a time post breakup where you really need to be kind to yourself be resourcing yourself to feel safe and comforted and supported rather than inadequate and unworthy and doomed to some sort of life of aloneness because there's something wrong with you. There isn't. Breakups are hard. They're always going to be hard, but you will be okay. It's a tunnel with a light at the end of it.
0:12:15.14 → 0:12:49.47
So just be really kind to yourself, take good care of yourself, and trust that you will get through the other side of it. I hope that that's been helpful for the question asker and anyone else who is going through a breakup or has been through a breakup and has told themselves those painful stories about an ex moving on or just seeming fine when they aren't. If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a five star rating and a review. It really does help so much in getting the word out, but otherwise, I look forward to seeing you again next week. I hope you all have a beautiful weekend.
0:12:49.55 → 0:12:50.50
Thanks guys.
0:12:52.87 → 0:13:15.40
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review on a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
"How do I navigate the tendency to lose myself in a long-term relationship as anxiously attached person?"
In this week's Q&A episode, I'm answering a community question about the (very common) tendency to lose oneself as an anxiously attached person in relationships. I'll talk through why this happens so often and easily, and what you can do to counter it.
In this week's Q&A episode, I'm answering a community question about the (very common) tendency to lose oneself as an anxiously attached person in relationships.
I'll talk through why this happens so often and easily, and what you can do to counter it.
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my signature 8-week course Healing Anxious Attachment
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:27.77 → 0:01:03.59 - TRANSCRIPT NEEDED
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's episode is five tips for rebuilding after a long term relationship. So this was a topic that was requested by my Instagram community, and it's one that I know a lot of people struggle with, and certainly I've struggled with myself. I think that long term relationships ending can be very destabilising, and it's certainly a time and an experience when we can feel really filled with doubt and inner conflict and confusion and mixed feelings.
0:01:03.77 → 0:01:55.58
And so I'm hoping that today's episode will give you some clarity, some guiding principles, some tools, and some mindset shifts to navigate that process with greater self trust and greater trust in the process itself, which I think is really what it comes down to. I should also say that even though I will be speaking more so in the context of a long term relationship, all of the tips I'm going to share would equally apply to any breakup or ending. So if you've just come out of a relationship that wasn't long term, that was only a couple of months and you're still really feeling it and still having a hard time, rest assured that you can apply and adapt, if need be. The tools and the advice that I'm going to be sharing today. Before I dive into that, I just wanted to share a couple of quick announcements.
0:01:55.64 → 0:02:18.94
The first being that I am holding a flash sale on my Master classes and my Higher Love course. It's 50% off, which is the biggest discount I've ever given on those. And you can get any of my Master classes. So better boundaries, which is all about boundaries, go figure how to navigate anxious, avoidant relationships and sex and attachments. So those are the three Master classes.
0:02:18.97 → 0:02:35.35
They're about 2 hours each. And my Higher Love course is a breakup course. And that's six modules. Fully self paced, self study, so you get instant access to all of it when you sign up. So you can use the code Love you loveyou at checkout to access that discount.
0:02:35.40 → 0:03:01.63
And I'll link all of that in the show notes. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is I stumbled across this show by accident a few months ago and I'm so glad I did. The podcast has helped me understand my own attachment style, and the sense of relief I now feel is massive. I finally know why I feel anxious and most importantly, what I need to do to become more secure. In fact, I've already started on this journey via the podcast and I've never before felt such a sense of calm.
0:03:01.68 → 0:03:27.15
I can finally relax. I'm looking forward to continuing this journey with Stephanie's podcast at the centre. Thank you so much for that beautiful review. I really love hearing that and it brings a big smile to my face. I think that your experience really speaks to the fact that so often what we need is just to be told you make sense, your experience makes sense, you're not crazy, you're not defective, you're not broken.
0:03:27.81 → 0:03:57.75
And understanding like, oh, other people are like me. And I feel understood and I feel like there's an explanation for all of this and there's a path forward. I think that in and of itself, before you even start taking those steps forward, is incredibly, as you say, relieving and calming to the system. So I'm so glad that that's been your experience. If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierig.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of those master classes that I mentioned earlier.
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Okay, so let's dive into these five tips for rebuilding after a long term relationship ends. The first tip that I want to offer you is allow yourself the time and space to grieve however you need to. I think collectively we're pretty uncomfortable with grief, whether that's grief after death or after any other ending. And I think it's really important to understand that the grieving process after a breakup is really biologically akin to any other type of grief. Obviously it can show up in different ways and circumstances will influence that, but it can take you through emotionally the same kind of process.
0:04:42.55 → 0:05:38.83
And so I think we need to approach it and honour it as such. What that means in Practise is allowing yourself to feel those feelings. Granted, you may not be able to take three months off work to stay in your pyjamas and cry all day, and that's certainly not what I'd be encouraging you to do anyway, but allowing yourself the time and space to be with whatever emotions are arising, and oftentimes those emotions will be conflicting. And so preparing yourself for that without making it mean more than it does. So it is perfectly normal to feel doubt, confusion, second guessing whether it was the right thing to do, longing for that person, wanting to reach out to them, rehashing everything that happened, anxiety, confusion, all of these things are completely normal, expected parts of the breakup experience and that grieving process.
0:05:38.92 → 0:06:20.63
And that's true irrespective of whether the relationship was healthy or unhealthy, whether the breakup was a long time coming or happened quite suddenly, we're going to go through some sort of grieving process and that's likely to come in waves. It's unlikely to be linear. And so I think the more we can go into that experience, expecting it, expecting it to be emotionally dense and turbulent, expecting it to come in waves, the less likely we are to take that experience and make it mean something. Because this is where I see people get stuck every single time we go, oh my God, I missed them so much. This cannot be the right decision.
0:06:20.97 → 0:06:47.55
If this were the right decision, there's no way that I would miss them this much or we're both so upset. Doesn't that mean that we should be trying to make it work? Maybe, but also probably not. If I'm being really honest, I think I have another episode on questions to ask before getting back together with someone that you can scroll back and find. But what I always say as a starting point is if it's just missing them, then that's not enough.
0:06:47.62 → 0:07:34.41
That's not enough of a reason to go back or to take any action with those feelings. Because missing someone is a completely normal, predictable response to a long term relationship ending. Again, any relationship ending, but especially a long term one. Because when you've been with someone for a long time, there is inherently a level of comfort and stability and predictability that you get from that relationship. Even if that relationship is dysfunctional and unhealthy and not working, that's still an anchor point in your life, that you come to navigate the world via all of your daily routines and habits and what you do, how you move about the world is influenced and shaped by the relationship.
0:07:34.61 → 0:07:56.83
So when that gets taken out, you're going to feel the lack of it, you're going to feel the void and that is going to be uncomfortable. So again, being really realistic with our expectations so that we can go, okay, I really miss them. I feel really knocked off centre here. I want to reach out to them. I feel lonely, I feel sad going, yeah, okay, of course I do.
0:07:56.87 → 0:08:07.87
Of course I feel those things. That makes perfect sense. That's part of the process. Okay? It's like if you injured yourself and you felt pain, you would expect to feel pain because that's part of the process.
0:08:08.04 → 0:08:46.41
That's what's going on here. And we need to allow ourselves to feel that without frantically trying to fix or solve or make it go away. So the first one there is allow yourself to grieve without making it mean more than it does or getting stuck in the stories that can spring from those big emotions. The next one that I want to offer you is to really lean on your support people here and that will look different for everyone. But whether that's close friends who you really trust, therapist or other professional that you see family members, it's really important for a couple of reasons.
0:08:46.46 → 0:09:34.26
I think there can be a temptation to isolate ourselves again if we're not comfortable with all of the big emotions and particularly if you're someone who has a bit of a tendency to not want to burden people with your stuff. If you're used to being the support person to others, you're used to playing the carer role, then it might be really uncomfortable for the shoe to be on the other foot, for you to be in need of that support when you're so accustomed to saying, I'm fine, don't worry about me. But the reality is you do need support in this period because, again, one of the key people in your life has been taken away and they are no longer in the picture. And so you're going to need to diversify where you would usually get that support from. So don't be afraid to ask for help, to ask for support.
0:09:35.11 → 0:10:26.71
The other key piece in this one is from a nervous system point of view, you need active and regular reminders that people in relationships are good and safe and positive, that you are loved, that you can be held by other people and supported, that you can be cared for. That's very nourishing to your system and will really counter any other stories you might have around the unsafety of being alone. Again, this is particularly for people who do struggle with being alone. So people who tend more towards anxious attachment, you may have quite a lot of visceral fear around the aloneness that comes with a breakup. And so countering that by going, okay, actually, as much as my fear stories in my body want to tell me that I'm alone, and that's terrifying, I'm not alone.
0:10:26.81 → 0:10:52.54
I've got all these people around me who care about me, who are invested in my well being, who I can lean on and be held by. And so maybe as much as my body wants to tell me that this is really unsafe and we need to do something about it, which might mean reaching out to your ex and trying to backpedal on everything, no, it's okay. I have other options. I have other support people. Here they are, and I'm going to be okay.
0:10:52.59 → 0:11:30.22
I can resource myself to get through this period in a way that is grounded, that is supported, and I don't need to go into a really fear based state, even more so than I might already be, by isolating myself. Okay, the third tip that I want to give you is see this period as an opportunity to spring clean your life. So this will start to come in a little bit further down the track. I don't expect you on day three, after the breakup to start reinventing yourself. And to be clear, you don't ever have to reinvent yourself.
0:11:30.67 → 0:11:54.51
There's nothing wrong with you, right? But I think that it can be really nice and can give you a sense of renewal and agency over the story and your role in it to go. Okay. This is an opportunity right. To see it as a fresh start as a new chapter, as a new beginning.
0:11:54.59 → 0:12:17.63
And to step into that in a really empowered, deliberate way, rather than floating around rutterless going, oh, my God. How has this happened? I'm alone. I can't live without them, what am I ever going to do? Obviously that's not a very empowered story and doesn't really allow you to get intentional about what you want your life to look like in this next chapter and beyond.
0:12:17.73 → 0:12:56.14
So see it as an opportunity to sprinkle in your life, to rediscover yourself again, particularly if you are someone who tends more towards anxious attachment or you otherwise know that you tend to really lose yourself in a relationship, so you tend to sort of become subsumed to the relationship container. This is a really great opportunity to carve out, like, who am I? What do I like? What would my ideal be if I weren't always thinking about someone else and what they like and what they're comfortable with? How do I want my space to look?
0:12:56.24 → 0:13:08.59
What do I like to do with my free time? What food do I like to eat? What shows do I like to watch? What do I want to spend my weekends doing right? When we're so accustomed to factoring in someone else?
0:13:08.68 → 0:13:49.27
And potentially, if that's your tendency to defer to what their preference is, we can lose sight of that. And so this is actually a really, really beautiful opportunity for you to make it about you for once. So relish in that opportunity, relish in the freedom that this period can afford you. So don't waste that or lose sight of it, or be so distracted by the hard parts of the experience that you aren't noticing all of the positives. The next tip that I want to offer you is become the most fully expressed version of yourself that you can.
0:13:49.34 → 0:14:21.71
So this is kind of in a similar vein to the previous one, but become more of yourself. So if the previous one was around, kind of revamping your surroundings and your routines and all of that to suit you, this one's about becoming more of you. So doing things that once would have scared you or doing things that you never thought that you could or that you've always wanted to, but you thought, no, I couldn't do that, right? Maybe you could, right? Challenge yourself.
0:14:21.86 → 0:14:51.56
Learn to overcome those fears or nerves or embarrassment or shame or any of those other things that have held you back from doing things that you've always been curious about or interested in. Right? So again, it's kind of easy and it's not a bad thing. I think it's just true, right, that it's easy to get lazy and really comfortable and cosy in a long term relationship. I think that a lot of us who are in long term relationships can relate to that, right?
0:14:51.69 → 0:15:41.25
That it's easy to get a bit complacent around the way we spend our time. So see this period as an invitation, a permission slip to really broaden your horizons and live a little. So whether that's like taking up a new hobby, going to cooking classes, or challenging yourself physically, starting to work with a personal trainer or taking up a new sport or starting running or something that you've previously thought wasn't like you or you didn't have time for or would be too hard. I think all of those things can be really powerful in building up your self worth, your sense of self and your self confidence as you enter into this next chapter. So reflect on what would be the things.
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Maybe it's just one or two things at the moment. How could I infuse some newness or stretch my comfort zone a little so that I'm becoming more of who I am and particularly in ways that I felt I couldn't when I was in a relationship? So stretch out that comfort zone, okay? And the last tip that I want to give you is when it comes time to date, and that might not be for a while, so please don't expect yourself to be back out there in a month, particularly if it's a long term relationship and there's a lot of processing to do. There is absolutely no rush here.
0:16:17.61 → 0:16:56.58
Expect to relapse, for want of a better term. So you might be feeling like super upbeat and positive and excited to get back out into the dating world and then maybe you download one of the apps and you feel really deflated and defeated and hopeless all of a sudden. Or you go on a couple of dates and it's underwhelming. Okay? Expect that it's going to be a bit of a process and don't expect to find your soulmate or the next person you're going to be in a long term relationship with on your first date or your first interaction on an app.
0:16:56.70 → 0:17:29.80
You need to be kind of bracing yourself for the process of dating, being hit and miss and being trial and error, and go into that with an open mind, with good humour. And again, try and see it as an opportunity rather than this drudgery, this frustrating thing that you reluctantly have to do in order to meet someone. Try and enjoy the process as much as possible. Try and approach it with a mindset of, oh, look at all these people that I get to meet. What a great opportunity.
0:17:29.93 → 0:18:02.72
That's all it has to be, right? And when I say expect to relapse, what I mean is expect to be reminded of your ex in ways that you might not have been in the intervening period. So I think it's really normal and natural to have felt like you were over them. And then you go on a date with someone and they have a trait that annoys you and you're like, oh, my ex would never have done that. We always used to laugh at people who did that or dressed like that or said things like that or liked that thing.
0:18:02.90 → 0:18:26.19
I miss them. Or you might just miss how comfortable and easeful it felt with your ex. Whereas with all these new people. You're starting from scratch and it feels difficult, and you don't know each other yet, and it's a bit awkward, and so you really just miss and crave the comfort of the comfy pair of jeans that you've worn in rather than the stiff new ones. It's really normal to feel that way.
0:18:26.26 → 0:18:53.15
And again, try not to make too much meaning out of it. Comparing new people with old people is a completely normal thing to do, so don't then go. Maybe that means that my ex is actually the right person for me. Stay the course, stick with the process, trust in the process, and know that you'll get more comfortable with it. And as time goes by, you'll get to know new people, and what starts as being a little bit awkward and uncomfortable will slowly become more comfortable.
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Right? There was a time where you didn't know your ex and you were in that same place with them. So just allow things to blossom and grow rather than writing them off straight out of the gate from a place of comparison or fear or anxiety or whatever else might be driving that response in you. Okay, so those were five tips for rebuilding after a long term relationship ends. I hope that that has been helpful.
0:19:17.78 → 0:19:55.55
I did try to give you a bit of a spectrum there of advice ranging from very early in the process, post breakup, to that kind of midway point where you're starting to emerge from the darkness and rebuild and then ultimately going towards potentially dating again. So I hope that that's given you a lot to work with, no matter where you are in that process. If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful, as always, if you could leave a five star rating or a review. If you're listening on Apple podcasts. It really does help so much, and I'm deeply, deeply appreciative of all of you who have been taking the time to do that recently.
0:19:55.65 → 0:20:16.62
It's very touching and humbling to me. Thanks so much for joining me, guys. I will see you again later in the week. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierig.com.
0:20:16.75 → 0:20:26.28
And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review on a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to to see you again soon.
5 Similarities Between Anxious & Avoidant People
We often speak about the many ways in which anxious and avoidantly attached people differ in their relationship styles. But in this episode, I'm flipping the script and highlighting some similarities between these so-called conflicting styles. We cover relationship fears, boundaries, vulnerability, conflict and more - and my hope is that you'll walk away with a greater capacity to approach yourself and the people in your life with curiosity and compassion.
We often speak about the many ways in which anxious and avoidantly attached people differ in their relationship styles. But in this episode, I'm flipping the script and highlighting some similarities between these so-called conflicting styles.
We cover relationship fears, boundaries, vulnerability, conflict and more - and my hope is that you'll walk away with a greater capacity to approach yourself and the people in your life with curiosity and compassion.
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my signature 8-week course Healing Anxious Attachment
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:27.77 → 0:01:03.59 - TRANSCRIPT NEEDED
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's episode is five tips for rebuilding after a long term relationship. So this was a topic that was requested by my Instagram community, and it's one that I know a lot of people struggle with, and certainly I've struggled with myself. I think that long term relationships ending can be very destabilising, and it's certainly a time and an experience when we can feel really filled with doubt and inner conflict and confusion and mixed feelings.
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And so I'm hoping that today's episode will give you some clarity, some guiding principles, some tools, and some mindset shifts to navigate that process with greater self trust and greater trust in the process itself, which I think is really what it comes down to. I should also say that even though I will be speaking more so in the context of a long term relationship, all of the tips I'm going to share would equally apply to any breakup or ending. So if you've just come out of a relationship that wasn't long term, that was only a couple of months and you're still really feeling it and still having a hard time, rest assured that you can apply and adapt, if need be. The tools and the advice that I'm going to be sharing today. Before I dive into that, I just wanted to share a couple of quick announcements.
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The first being that I am holding a flash sale on my Master classes and my Higher Love course. It's 50% off, which is the biggest discount I've ever given on those. And you can get any of my Master classes. So better boundaries, which is all about boundaries, go figure how to navigate anxious, avoidant relationships and sex and attachments. So those are the three Master classes.
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They're about 2 hours each. And my Higher Love course is a breakup course. And that's six modules. Fully self paced, self study, so you get instant access to all of it when you sign up. So you can use the code Love you loveyou at checkout to access that discount.
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And I'll link all of that in the show notes. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is I stumbled across this show by accident a few months ago and I'm so glad I did. The podcast has helped me understand my own attachment style, and the sense of relief I now feel is massive. I finally know why I feel anxious and most importantly, what I need to do to become more secure. In fact, I've already started on this journey via the podcast and I've never before felt such a sense of calm.
0:03:01.68 → 0:03:27.15
I can finally relax. I'm looking forward to continuing this journey with Stephanie's podcast at the centre. Thank you so much for that beautiful review. I really love hearing that and it brings a big smile to my face. I think that your experience really speaks to the fact that so often what we need is just to be told you make sense, your experience makes sense, you're not crazy, you're not defective, you're not broken.
0:03:27.81 → 0:03:57.75
And understanding like, oh, other people are like me. And I feel understood and I feel like there's an explanation for all of this and there's a path forward. I think that in and of itself, before you even start taking those steps forward, is incredibly, as you say, relieving and calming to the system. So I'm so glad that that's been your experience. If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierig.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of those master classes that I mentioned earlier.
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Okay, so let's dive into these five tips for rebuilding after a long term relationship ends. The first tip that I want to offer you is allow yourself the time and space to grieve however you need to. I think collectively we're pretty uncomfortable with grief, whether that's grief after death or after any other ending. And I think it's really important to understand that the grieving process after a breakup is really biologically akin to any other type of grief. Obviously it can show up in different ways and circumstances will influence that, but it can take you through emotionally the same kind of process.
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And so I think we need to approach it and honour it as such. What that means in Practise is allowing yourself to feel those feelings. Granted, you may not be able to take three months off work to stay in your pyjamas and cry all day, and that's certainly not what I'd be encouraging you to do anyway, but allowing yourself the time and space to be with whatever emotions are arising, and oftentimes those emotions will be conflicting. And so preparing yourself for that without making it mean more than it does. So it is perfectly normal to feel doubt, confusion, second guessing whether it was the right thing to do, longing for that person, wanting to reach out to them, rehashing everything that happened, anxiety, confusion, all of these things are completely normal, expected parts of the breakup experience and that grieving process.
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And that's true irrespective of whether the relationship was healthy or unhealthy, whether the breakup was a long time coming or happened quite suddenly, we're going to go through some sort of grieving process and that's likely to come in waves. It's unlikely to be linear. And so I think the more we can go into that experience, expecting it, expecting it to be emotionally dense and turbulent, expecting it to come in waves, the less likely we are to take that experience and make it mean something. Because this is where I see people get stuck every single time we go, oh my God, I missed them so much. This cannot be the right decision.
0:06:20.97 → 0:06:47.55
If this were the right decision, there's no way that I would miss them this much or we're both so upset. Doesn't that mean that we should be trying to make it work? Maybe, but also probably not. If I'm being really honest, I think I have another episode on questions to ask before getting back together with someone that you can scroll back and find. But what I always say as a starting point is if it's just missing them, then that's not enough.
0:06:47.62 → 0:07:34.41
That's not enough of a reason to go back or to take any action with those feelings. Because missing someone is a completely normal, predictable response to a long term relationship ending. Again, any relationship ending, but especially a long term one. Because when you've been with someone for a long time, there is inherently a level of comfort and stability and predictability that you get from that relationship. Even if that relationship is dysfunctional and unhealthy and not working, that's still an anchor point in your life, that you come to navigate the world via all of your daily routines and habits and what you do, how you move about the world is influenced and shaped by the relationship.
0:07:34.61 → 0:07:56.83
So when that gets taken out, you're going to feel the lack of it, you're going to feel the void and that is going to be uncomfortable. So again, being really realistic with our expectations so that we can go, okay, I really miss them. I feel really knocked off centre here. I want to reach out to them. I feel lonely, I feel sad going, yeah, okay, of course I do.
0:07:56.87 → 0:08:07.87
Of course I feel those things. That makes perfect sense. That's part of the process. Okay? It's like if you injured yourself and you felt pain, you would expect to feel pain because that's part of the process.
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That's what's going on here. And we need to allow ourselves to feel that without frantically trying to fix or solve or make it go away. So the first one there is allow yourself to grieve without making it mean more than it does or getting stuck in the stories that can spring from those big emotions. The next one that I want to offer you is to really lean on your support people here and that will look different for everyone. But whether that's close friends who you really trust, therapist or other professional that you see family members, it's really important for a couple of reasons.
0:08:46.46 → 0:09:34.26
I think there can be a temptation to isolate ourselves again if we're not comfortable with all of the big emotions and particularly if you're someone who has a bit of a tendency to not want to burden people with your stuff. If you're used to being the support person to others, you're used to playing the carer role, then it might be really uncomfortable for the shoe to be on the other foot, for you to be in need of that support when you're so accustomed to saying, I'm fine, don't worry about me. But the reality is you do need support in this period because, again, one of the key people in your life has been taken away and they are no longer in the picture. And so you're going to need to diversify where you would usually get that support from. So don't be afraid to ask for help, to ask for support.
0:09:35.11 → 0:10:26.71
The other key piece in this one is from a nervous system point of view, you need active and regular reminders that people in relationships are good and safe and positive, that you are loved, that you can be held by other people and supported, that you can be cared for. That's very nourishing to your system and will really counter any other stories you might have around the unsafety of being alone. Again, this is particularly for people who do struggle with being alone. So people who tend more towards anxious attachment, you may have quite a lot of visceral fear around the aloneness that comes with a breakup. And so countering that by going, okay, actually, as much as my fear stories in my body want to tell me that I'm alone, and that's terrifying, I'm not alone.
0:10:26.81 → 0:10:52.54
I've got all these people around me who care about me, who are invested in my well being, who I can lean on and be held by. And so maybe as much as my body wants to tell me that this is really unsafe and we need to do something about it, which might mean reaching out to your ex and trying to backpedal on everything, no, it's okay. I have other options. I have other support people. Here they are, and I'm going to be okay.
0:10:52.59 → 0:11:30.22
I can resource myself to get through this period in a way that is grounded, that is supported, and I don't need to go into a really fear based state, even more so than I might already be, by isolating myself. Okay, the third tip that I want to give you is see this period as an opportunity to spring clean your life. So this will start to come in a little bit further down the track. I don't expect you on day three, after the breakup to start reinventing yourself. And to be clear, you don't ever have to reinvent yourself.
0:11:30.67 → 0:11:54.51
There's nothing wrong with you, right? But I think that it can be really nice and can give you a sense of renewal and agency over the story and your role in it to go. Okay. This is an opportunity right. To see it as a fresh start as a new chapter, as a new beginning.
0:11:54.59 → 0:12:17.63
And to step into that in a really empowered, deliberate way, rather than floating around rutterless going, oh, my God. How has this happened? I'm alone. I can't live without them, what am I ever going to do? Obviously that's not a very empowered story and doesn't really allow you to get intentional about what you want your life to look like in this next chapter and beyond.
0:12:17.73 → 0:12:56.14
So see it as an opportunity to sprinkle in your life, to rediscover yourself again, particularly if you are someone who tends more towards anxious attachment or you otherwise know that you tend to really lose yourself in a relationship, so you tend to sort of become subsumed to the relationship container. This is a really great opportunity to carve out, like, who am I? What do I like? What would my ideal be if I weren't always thinking about someone else and what they like and what they're comfortable with? How do I want my space to look?
0:12:56.24 → 0:13:08.59
What do I like to do with my free time? What food do I like to eat? What shows do I like to watch? What do I want to spend my weekends doing right? When we're so accustomed to factoring in someone else?
0:13:08.68 → 0:13:49.27
And potentially, if that's your tendency to defer to what their preference is, we can lose sight of that. And so this is actually a really, really beautiful opportunity for you to make it about you for once. So relish in that opportunity, relish in the freedom that this period can afford you. So don't waste that or lose sight of it, or be so distracted by the hard parts of the experience that you aren't noticing all of the positives. The next tip that I want to offer you is become the most fully expressed version of yourself that you can.
0:13:49.34 → 0:14:21.71
So this is kind of in a similar vein to the previous one, but become more of yourself. So if the previous one was around, kind of revamping your surroundings and your routines and all of that to suit you, this one's about becoming more of you. So doing things that once would have scared you or doing things that you never thought that you could or that you've always wanted to, but you thought, no, I couldn't do that, right? Maybe you could, right? Challenge yourself.
0:14:21.86 → 0:14:51.56
Learn to overcome those fears or nerves or embarrassment or shame or any of those other things that have held you back from doing things that you've always been curious about or interested in. Right? So again, it's kind of easy and it's not a bad thing. I think it's just true, right, that it's easy to get lazy and really comfortable and cosy in a long term relationship. I think that a lot of us who are in long term relationships can relate to that, right?
0:14:51.69 → 0:15:41.25
That it's easy to get a bit complacent around the way we spend our time. So see this period as an invitation, a permission slip to really broaden your horizons and live a little. So whether that's like taking up a new hobby, going to cooking classes, or challenging yourself physically, starting to work with a personal trainer or taking up a new sport or starting running or something that you've previously thought wasn't like you or you didn't have time for or would be too hard. I think all of those things can be really powerful in building up your self worth, your sense of self and your self confidence as you enter into this next chapter. So reflect on what would be the things.
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Maybe it's just one or two things at the moment. How could I infuse some newness or stretch my comfort zone a little so that I'm becoming more of who I am and particularly in ways that I felt I couldn't when I was in a relationship? So stretch out that comfort zone, okay? And the last tip that I want to give you is when it comes time to date, and that might not be for a while, so please don't expect yourself to be back out there in a month, particularly if it's a long term relationship and there's a lot of processing to do. There is absolutely no rush here.
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Expect to relapse, for want of a better term. So you might be feeling like super upbeat and positive and excited to get back out into the dating world and then maybe you download one of the apps and you feel really deflated and defeated and hopeless all of a sudden. Or you go on a couple of dates and it's underwhelming. Okay? Expect that it's going to be a bit of a process and don't expect to find your soulmate or the next person you're going to be in a long term relationship with on your first date or your first interaction on an app.
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You need to be kind of bracing yourself for the process of dating, being hit and miss and being trial and error, and go into that with an open mind, with good humour. And again, try and see it as an opportunity rather than this drudgery, this frustrating thing that you reluctantly have to do in order to meet someone. Try and enjoy the process as much as possible. Try and approach it with a mindset of, oh, look at all these people that I get to meet. What a great opportunity.
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That's all it has to be, right? And when I say expect to relapse, what I mean is expect to be reminded of your ex in ways that you might not have been in the intervening period. So I think it's really normal and natural to have felt like you were over them. And then you go on a date with someone and they have a trait that annoys you and you're like, oh, my ex would never have done that. We always used to laugh at people who did that or dressed like that or said things like that or liked that thing.
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I miss them. Or you might just miss how comfortable and easeful it felt with your ex. Whereas with all these new people. You're starting from scratch and it feels difficult, and you don't know each other yet, and it's a bit awkward, and so you really just miss and crave the comfort of the comfy pair of jeans that you've worn in rather than the stiff new ones. It's really normal to feel that way.
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And again, try not to make too much meaning out of it. Comparing new people with old people is a completely normal thing to do, so don't then go. Maybe that means that my ex is actually the right person for me. Stay the course, stick with the process, trust in the process, and know that you'll get more comfortable with it. And as time goes by, you'll get to know new people, and what starts as being a little bit awkward and uncomfortable will slowly become more comfortable.
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Right? There was a time where you didn't know your ex and you were in that same place with them. So just allow things to blossom and grow rather than writing them off straight out of the gate from a place of comparison or fear or anxiety or whatever else might be driving that response in you. Okay, so those were five tips for rebuilding after a long term relationship ends. I hope that that has been helpful.
0:19:17.78 → 0:19:55.55
I did try to give you a bit of a spectrum there of advice ranging from very early in the process, post breakup, to that kind of midway point where you're starting to emerge from the darkness and rebuild and then ultimately going towards potentially dating again. So I hope that that's given you a lot to work with, no matter where you are in that process. If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful, as always, if you could leave a five star rating or a review. If you're listening on Apple podcasts. It really does help so much, and I'm deeply, deeply appreciative of all of you who have been taking the time to do that recently.
0:19:55.65 → 0:20:16.62
It's very touching and humbling to me. Thanks so much for joining me, guys. I will see you again later in the week. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierig.com.
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And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review on a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to to see you again soon.
"I used to be anxiously attached, but after being cheated on I think I've become avoidant. Help!"
In this episode, I'm answering the community question of "I used to be anxiously attached, but after discovering my husband's infidelity, I find myself being avoidant with potential new partners. How do I find the healthy middle ground?" We talk about changing attachment styles, fear, betrayal and how we can start to create more safety more ourselves after we've been hurt.
In this episode, I'm answering the community question of "I used to be anxiously attached, but after discovering my husband's infidelity, I find myself being avoidant with potential new partners. How do I find the healthy middle ground?"
We talk about changing attachment styles, fear, betrayal and how we can start to create more safety more ourselves after we've been hurt.
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my signature 8-week course Healing Anxious Attachment
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
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Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's episode is five tips for rebuilding after a long term relationship. So this was a topic that was requested by my Instagram community, and it's one that I know a lot of people struggle with, and certainly I've struggled with myself. I think that long term relationships ending can be very destabilising, and it's certainly a time and an experience when we can feel really filled with doubt and inner conflict and confusion and mixed feelings.
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And so I'm hoping that today's episode will give you some clarity, some guiding principles, some tools, and some mindset shifts to navigate that process with greater self trust and greater trust in the process itself, which I think is really what it comes down to. I should also say that even though I will be speaking more so in the context of a long term relationship, all of the tips I'm going to share would equally apply to any breakup or ending. So if you've just come out of a relationship that wasn't long term, that was only a couple of months and you're still really feeling it and still having a hard time, rest assured that you can apply and adapt, if need be. The tools and the advice that I'm going to be sharing today. Before I dive into that, I just wanted to share a couple of quick announcements.
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The first being that I am holding a flash sale on my Master classes and my Higher Love course. It's 50% off, which is the biggest discount I've ever given on those. And you can get any of my Master classes. So better boundaries, which is all about boundaries, go figure how to navigate anxious, avoidant relationships and sex and attachments. So those are the three Master classes.
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They're about 2 hours each. And my Higher Love course is a breakup course. And that's six modules. Fully self paced, self study, so you get instant access to all of it when you sign up. So you can use the code Love you loveyou at checkout to access that discount.
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And I'll link all of that in the show notes. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is I stumbled across this show by accident a few months ago and I'm so glad I did. The podcast has helped me understand my own attachment style, and the sense of relief I now feel is massive. I finally know why I feel anxious and most importantly, what I need to do to become more secure. In fact, I've already started on this journey via the podcast and I've never before felt such a sense of calm.
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I can finally relax. I'm looking forward to continuing this journey with Stephanie's podcast at the centre. Thank you so much for that beautiful review. I really love hearing that and it brings a big smile to my face. I think that your experience really speaks to the fact that so often what we need is just to be told you make sense, your experience makes sense, you're not crazy, you're not defective, you're not broken.
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And understanding like, oh, other people are like me. And I feel understood and I feel like there's an explanation for all of this and there's a path forward. I think that in and of itself, before you even start taking those steps forward, is incredibly, as you say, relieving and calming to the system. So I'm so glad that that's been your experience. If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierig.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of those master classes that I mentioned earlier.
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Okay, so let's dive into these five tips for rebuilding after a long term relationship ends. The first tip that I want to offer you is allow yourself the time and space to grieve however you need to. I think collectively we're pretty uncomfortable with grief, whether that's grief after death or after any other ending. And I think it's really important to understand that the grieving process after a breakup is really biologically akin to any other type of grief. Obviously it can show up in different ways and circumstances will influence that, but it can take you through emotionally the same kind of process.
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And so I think we need to approach it and honour it as such. What that means in Practise is allowing yourself to feel those feelings. Granted, you may not be able to take three months off work to stay in your pyjamas and cry all day, and that's certainly not what I'd be encouraging you to do anyway, but allowing yourself the time and space to be with whatever emotions are arising, and oftentimes those emotions will be conflicting. And so preparing yourself for that without making it mean more than it does. So it is perfectly normal to feel doubt, confusion, second guessing whether it was the right thing to do, longing for that person, wanting to reach out to them, rehashing everything that happened, anxiety, confusion, all of these things are completely normal, expected parts of the breakup experience and that grieving process.
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And that's true irrespective of whether the relationship was healthy or unhealthy, whether the breakup was a long time coming or happened quite suddenly, we're going to go through some sort of grieving process and that's likely to come in waves. It's unlikely to be linear. And so I think the more we can go into that experience, expecting it, expecting it to be emotionally dense and turbulent, expecting it to come in waves, the less likely we are to take that experience and make it mean something. Because this is where I see people get stuck every single time we go, oh my God, I missed them so much. This cannot be the right decision.
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If this were the right decision, there's no way that I would miss them this much or we're both so upset. Doesn't that mean that we should be trying to make it work? Maybe, but also probably not. If I'm being really honest, I think I have another episode on questions to ask before getting back together with someone that you can scroll back and find. But what I always say as a starting point is if it's just missing them, then that's not enough.
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That's not enough of a reason to go back or to take any action with those feelings. Because missing someone is a completely normal, predictable response to a long term relationship ending. Again, any relationship ending, but especially a long term one. Because when you've been with someone for a long time, there is inherently a level of comfort and stability and predictability that you get from that relationship. Even if that relationship is dysfunctional and unhealthy and not working, that's still an anchor point in your life, that you come to navigate the world via all of your daily routines and habits and what you do, how you move about the world is influenced and shaped by the relationship.
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So when that gets taken out, you're going to feel the lack of it, you're going to feel the void and that is going to be uncomfortable. So again, being really realistic with our expectations so that we can go, okay, I really miss them. I feel really knocked off centre here. I want to reach out to them. I feel lonely, I feel sad going, yeah, okay, of course I do.
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Of course I feel those things. That makes perfect sense. That's part of the process. Okay? It's like if you injured yourself and you felt pain, you would expect to feel pain because that's part of the process.
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That's what's going on here. And we need to allow ourselves to feel that without frantically trying to fix or solve or make it go away. So the first one there is allow yourself to grieve without making it mean more than it does or getting stuck in the stories that can spring from those big emotions. The next one that I want to offer you is to really lean on your support people here and that will look different for everyone. But whether that's close friends who you really trust, therapist or other professional that you see family members, it's really important for a couple of reasons.
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I think there can be a temptation to isolate ourselves again if we're not comfortable with all of the big emotions and particularly if you're someone who has a bit of a tendency to not want to burden people with your stuff. If you're used to being the support person to others, you're used to playing the carer role, then it might be really uncomfortable for the shoe to be on the other foot, for you to be in need of that support when you're so accustomed to saying, I'm fine, don't worry about me. But the reality is you do need support in this period because, again, one of the key people in your life has been taken away and they are no longer in the picture. And so you're going to need to diversify where you would usually get that support from. So don't be afraid to ask for help, to ask for support.
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The other key piece in this one is from a nervous system point of view, you need active and regular reminders that people in relationships are good and safe and positive, that you are loved, that you can be held by other people and supported, that you can be cared for. That's very nourishing to your system and will really counter any other stories you might have around the unsafety of being alone. Again, this is particularly for people who do struggle with being alone. So people who tend more towards anxious attachment, you may have quite a lot of visceral fear around the aloneness that comes with a breakup. And so countering that by going, okay, actually, as much as my fear stories in my body want to tell me that I'm alone, and that's terrifying, I'm not alone.
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I've got all these people around me who care about me, who are invested in my well being, who I can lean on and be held by. And so maybe as much as my body wants to tell me that this is really unsafe and we need to do something about it, which might mean reaching out to your ex and trying to backpedal on everything, no, it's okay. I have other options. I have other support people. Here they are, and I'm going to be okay.
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I can resource myself to get through this period in a way that is grounded, that is supported, and I don't need to go into a really fear based state, even more so than I might already be, by isolating myself. Okay, the third tip that I want to give you is see this period as an opportunity to spring clean your life. So this will start to come in a little bit further down the track. I don't expect you on day three, after the breakup to start reinventing yourself. And to be clear, you don't ever have to reinvent yourself.
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There's nothing wrong with you, right? But I think that it can be really nice and can give you a sense of renewal and agency over the story and your role in it to go. Okay. This is an opportunity right. To see it as a fresh start as a new chapter, as a new beginning.
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And to step into that in a really empowered, deliberate way, rather than floating around rutterless going, oh, my God. How has this happened? I'm alone. I can't live without them, what am I ever going to do? Obviously that's not a very empowered story and doesn't really allow you to get intentional about what you want your life to look like in this next chapter and beyond.
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So see it as an opportunity to sprinkle in your life, to rediscover yourself again, particularly if you are someone who tends more towards anxious attachment or you otherwise know that you tend to really lose yourself in a relationship, so you tend to sort of become subsumed to the relationship container. This is a really great opportunity to carve out, like, who am I? What do I like? What would my ideal be if I weren't always thinking about someone else and what they like and what they're comfortable with? How do I want my space to look?
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What do I like to do with my free time? What food do I like to eat? What shows do I like to watch? What do I want to spend my weekends doing right? When we're so accustomed to factoring in someone else?
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And potentially, if that's your tendency to defer to what their preference is, we can lose sight of that. And so this is actually a really, really beautiful opportunity for you to make it about you for once. So relish in that opportunity, relish in the freedom that this period can afford you. So don't waste that or lose sight of it, or be so distracted by the hard parts of the experience that you aren't noticing all of the positives. The next tip that I want to offer you is become the most fully expressed version of yourself that you can.
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So this is kind of in a similar vein to the previous one, but become more of yourself. So if the previous one was around, kind of revamping your surroundings and your routines and all of that to suit you, this one's about becoming more of you. So doing things that once would have scared you or doing things that you never thought that you could or that you've always wanted to, but you thought, no, I couldn't do that, right? Maybe you could, right? Challenge yourself.
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Learn to overcome those fears or nerves or embarrassment or shame or any of those other things that have held you back from doing things that you've always been curious about or interested in. Right? So again, it's kind of easy and it's not a bad thing. I think it's just true, right, that it's easy to get lazy and really comfortable and cosy in a long term relationship. I think that a lot of us who are in long term relationships can relate to that, right?
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That it's easy to get a bit complacent around the way we spend our time. So see this period as an invitation, a permission slip to really broaden your horizons and live a little. So whether that's like taking up a new hobby, going to cooking classes, or challenging yourself physically, starting to work with a personal trainer or taking up a new sport or starting running or something that you've previously thought wasn't like you or you didn't have time for or would be too hard. I think all of those things can be really powerful in building up your self worth, your sense of self and your self confidence as you enter into this next chapter. So reflect on what would be the things.
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Maybe it's just one or two things at the moment. How could I infuse some newness or stretch my comfort zone a little so that I'm becoming more of who I am and particularly in ways that I felt I couldn't when I was in a relationship? So stretch out that comfort zone, okay? And the last tip that I want to give you is when it comes time to date, and that might not be for a while, so please don't expect yourself to be back out there in a month, particularly if it's a long term relationship and there's a lot of processing to do. There is absolutely no rush here.
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Expect to relapse, for want of a better term. So you might be feeling like super upbeat and positive and excited to get back out into the dating world and then maybe you download one of the apps and you feel really deflated and defeated and hopeless all of a sudden. Or you go on a couple of dates and it's underwhelming. Okay? Expect that it's going to be a bit of a process and don't expect to find your soulmate or the next person you're going to be in a long term relationship with on your first date or your first interaction on an app.
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You need to be kind of bracing yourself for the process of dating, being hit and miss and being trial and error, and go into that with an open mind, with good humour. And again, try and see it as an opportunity rather than this drudgery, this frustrating thing that you reluctantly have to do in order to meet someone. Try and enjoy the process as much as possible. Try and approach it with a mindset of, oh, look at all these people that I get to meet. What a great opportunity.
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That's all it has to be, right? And when I say expect to relapse, what I mean is expect to be reminded of your ex in ways that you might not have been in the intervening period. So I think it's really normal and natural to have felt like you were over them. And then you go on a date with someone and they have a trait that annoys you and you're like, oh, my ex would never have done that. We always used to laugh at people who did that or dressed like that or said things like that or liked that thing.
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I miss them. Or you might just miss how comfortable and easeful it felt with your ex. Whereas with all these new people. You're starting from scratch and it feels difficult, and you don't know each other yet, and it's a bit awkward, and so you really just miss and crave the comfort of the comfy pair of jeans that you've worn in rather than the stiff new ones. It's really normal to feel that way.
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And again, try not to make too much meaning out of it. Comparing new people with old people is a completely normal thing to do, so don't then go. Maybe that means that my ex is actually the right person for me. Stay the course, stick with the process, trust in the process, and know that you'll get more comfortable with it. And as time goes by, you'll get to know new people, and what starts as being a little bit awkward and uncomfortable will slowly become more comfortable.
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Right? There was a time where you didn't know your ex and you were in that same place with them. So just allow things to blossom and grow rather than writing them off straight out of the gate from a place of comparison or fear or anxiety or whatever else might be driving that response in you. Okay, so those were five tips for rebuilding after a long term relationship ends. I hope that that has been helpful.
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I did try to give you a bit of a spectrum there of advice ranging from very early in the process, post breakup, to that kind of midway point where you're starting to emerge from the darkness and rebuild and then ultimately going towards potentially dating again. So I hope that that's given you a lot to work with, no matter where you are in that process. If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful, as always, if you could leave a five star rating or a review. If you're listening on Apple podcasts. It really does help so much, and I'm deeply, deeply appreciative of all of you who have been taking the time to do that recently.
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It's very touching and humbling to me. Thanks so much for joining me, guys. I will see you again later in the week. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierig.com.
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And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review on a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to to see you again soon.