#206: How Understanding Your Nervous System Can Make You A Better Partner & Parent with Alyssa Blask Campbell

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We often talk about self-care, emotional intelligence, and regulation—but what if the missing piece is learning how your unique nervous system actually works?

In a recent conversation with Alyssa Blask Campbell—author of Tiny Humans, Big Emotions and Big Kids, Bigger Feelings—we explored how tuning into your nervous system can completely transform the way you show up as both a partner and a parent. Alyssa’s work centers on raising emotionally intelligent kids, but as she points out, these insights apply to all of our relationships.

Why Your Nervous System Matters

When life feels overwhelming, most of us reach for generic advice: “take deep breaths,” “go for a walk,” “practice self-care.” But those one-size-fits-all strategies often fall flat because they don’t take into account the reality of your specific nervous system.

As Alyssa shared:

• Each of us has unique traits, sensitivities, and needs.

• What calms one person might overstimulate another.

• Understanding your wiring can create more compassion, reduce conflict, and help you show up with greater presence in your relationships.

This awareness shifts you from being a passenger in your life—constantly asking, “Why do I feel like this?”—to being in the driver’s seat, able to anticipate, regulate, and respond with choice.

How It Plays Out in Relationships

Alyssa gave a simple but powerful example from her marriage. She tends to excel at executive functioning—organizing, planning, anticipating needs. Her husband, on the other hand, has strengths in other areas but finds that kind of mental load more challenging.

In the past, this difference might have led to frustration: “Why can’t you just think ahead?” But by understanding their different nervous systems, she could reframe the situation. Instead of resentment, she could offer compassion and adjust her own communication.

This shift—seeing differences as neurodiversity rather than flaws—has strengthened not just her marriage but her parenting, too.

What We Get Wrong About Parenting

One of the biggest myths Alyssa highlighted is the belief that kids’ behavior is always a choice.

In reality, for a child (or an adult) to access self-control, they must first be in a regulated state. That requires:

• Self-awareness (recognizing the physical signs of dysregulation)

• Tools for regulation (and the ability to access them in the moment)

Without those, expecting perfect behavior—whether from a toddler at bedtime or an adult in an argument—is unrealistic. Dysregulated nervous systems don’t make good choices, no matter our age.

The Power of Repair

Another cornerstone of Alyssa’s work is the importance of repair. None of us—parents or partners—get it right all the time. What matters is how quickly and genuinely we can acknowledge mistakes.

She shared that her own parents never apologized, but in her household, repair is non-negotiable. Whether it’s snapping at her kids after a stressful day or needing to pause an argument with her husband, she models accountability: “I’m sorry. That wasn’t okay. Here’s what I’ll try next time.”

Repair, she says, dissolves shame and builds resilience.

Nervous System Literacy: The Nine Senses

Most of us grew up learning about five senses. But Alyssa reminds us there are nine—including proprioception (knowing where your body is in space), vestibular (balance and movement), and interoception (internal cues like hunger, fatigue, or a racing heart).

Each of us falls on a spectrum from sensitive to seeking in each of these senses. That’s why one partner may love the chaos of a noisy household while the other feels completely drained by it. Or why one child thrives on co-sleeping while another sleeps best with more space.

Knowing your profile—and your family’s—can be a game changer.

A Practical First Step

If all of this feels overwhelming, Alyssa has created a free Regulation Questionnaire at seedquiz.com. It helps you map your nervous system across all nine senses and gives you personalized strategies for regulation and self-care.

Unlike prescriptive “do this every day” lists, this tool helps you discover what actually works for you—and for your kids.

Final Thoughts

Understanding your nervous system isn’t just about parenting—it’s about building healthier, more compassionate relationships across the board. It allows us to:

• Respond instead of react.

• See differences as strengths, not shortcomings.

• Repair quickly when we mess up.

• Create homes and partnerships where everyone feels seen and supported.

As Alyssa beautifully put it: “When I learned how my nervous system works—and how my husband’s works—it transformed everything.”

And the best part? It’s not about perfection. It’s about awareness, choice, and repair.

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FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:

• FREE TRAINING: How to Heal Anxious Attachment and (Finally) Feel Secure in Life & Love

• Download the FREE Anxious Attachment Starter Kit here
  

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Episode Transcript

Stephanie Rigg [00:00:04]:

You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship coach, Stephanie Rigg. And I'm really glad you're here.

Stephanie Rigg [00:00:29]:

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today I'm joined by Alyssa Blask Campbell, who's a parenting expert and author of Tiny Humans, Big Emotions and her new book, Big Kids, Bigger Feelings. Alyssa's work centres on helping parents and caregivers understand the role of the nervous system in raising emotionally intelligent children. In our conversation today, we explore how a deeper understanding of your unique nervous system can not only make you a more attun parent, but also a more grounded partner. Rather than taking a one size fits all approach, Alyssa shares how tuning into the specific traits and needs of your nervous system can totally transform the way that you show up in all of your relationships. I so enjoyed my chat with Alyssa and I'm sure that you will too. So let's dive straight in.

Stephanie Rigg [00:01:15]:

Hi, Alyssa, thank you so much for being here.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:01:18]:

Hello. I'm so jazzed to be here and get to hang with you, Stephanie.

Stephanie Rigg [00:01:22]:

Likewise. So maybe for anyone who doesn't know you and your work, you could give a bit of an introduction to what you do in the world and kind of how you got here.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:01:31]:

Totally. So my master's is in early childhood education, but I did research in building emotional intelligence and we look so deeply at the nervous system and what I kept finding in space after space were regulation strategies for, like, how to calm your body and how to regulate and how to practise self care. And they were one size fits all prescriptive or feels like, oh, my gosh, I need so much time and energy and capacity. Capacity or money to access those things. And so what we really dive into in our work is understanding your unique nervous system, how you operate and what it looks like to take care of you and then be in relationship with humans around you, whether it's your partner or it's at work or it's with your kids. And to understand if you are parenting, who is the tiny human in front of you, how does their nervous system work and how do you support their emotional intelligence? And it's been a wild ride over here, but I started Seed and Sow after the research ended to just share about it and it just kind of took off and grew on its own from there and it has now become, we have courses I have. My first book is Tiny Humans, Big Emotions. My second book is Big Kids, Bigger Feelings.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:02:53]:

And then we support schools, so elementary schools, middle schools, and then, like, daycare preschools here in the States and in Canada. And really just looking at, like, how do you do this work? And then I travel and speak, whether it's to companies and how to look at what this looks like in your business or in relationships and in partnerships, in marriage and also then in the parenting space.

Stephanie Rigg [00:03:19]:

Amazing. And I think the fact that you cover such a broad scope in terms of the applications of the work really speaks to the fact that this affects everything. Right. The way that we move through the world, our nervous system, our awareness of that, our. What was our literacy with respect to our own nervous system and that of others, I think is very, very profound in shaping how we perceive ourselves, other people, relationships. Like, in the moment, in the big picture, like, it's everything. So it makes sense that, like, it's. You've got so many tentacles in different places as you've, you know, done this work.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:03:51]:

That's it. It, like, it applies to everything. People say, oh, I came for my kids, but I'm staying for myself. Like, it is, like, the key to how you operate. It has strengthened my marriage. I mean, I did the. I had kids, and we use this in our marriage every single day. Like, my husband and I have very different nervous systems and how we integrate the world and process stuff and what our needs are, are so different.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:04:19]:

And understanding how one another, how ourselves, how we operate is so huge for us. Getting our needs met and then also showing up for one another.

Stephanie Rigg [00:04:31]:

Yes. And I think for me, I've worked with a somatically trained therapist for the past four years and doing that work personally and then doing some training in it as well, I think it just shifts you into a level of agency in your life that you don't have without that awareness. Because it's just like you go from, why do I feel like this? Why does this keep happening to me? And feeling very much like the passenger in your life, to being much more able to be present with what's going on for me, what do I need? And, like, bringing choice into moments that you may not previously have had access to that. And I think that alone is, whoa, that's paradigm shifting.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:05:07]:

A hundred percent. Oh, I love that perspective, Stephanie. That, like, it really allows you to be that driver and to not feel like life is happening to you, but instead to be like, oh, I get to have some control and choice and autonomy here in this Life and understand, oh, this when this happens. This is why I feel this way. And here are choices I have to navigate that.

Stephanie Rigg [00:05:32]:

Yeah, it's like, deeply validating and empowering at the same time. It's like, not a big mystery anymore. It's like, oh, that makes sense. Okay, and what am I going to do with it?

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:05:40]:

Yes, exactly. I actually, that just made me think, just the other day, we had a dinner plan. We were going to do, like, tacos, burritos. We kind of just do a make your own what? I like to have it in a bowl, My husband likes to have it in a burrito. One kid likes a taco, the other kid likes a burrito. And so we just prepare all the ingredients, kind of make your own thing. And our neighbour who lives behind us had texted and was like, hey, do you guys want to hang for dinner tonight? They have two kids, very similar age. And she was like, we were planning to do kind of like a Mexican night.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:06:11]:

And we're like, oh, we had a similar plan. Yes, what do you have? And she sent over a text of what they had. And I sent the screenshot to my husband was like, hey, we're going to combine with Emily and Ryan for dinner tonight. Here's what they have. I'm going to pick the kids up from school. Do you want to just grab the other stuff from our house and meet me over there after work? He was like, yeah, totally. He shows up and he had some ingredients, but not all of the things that I expected him to bring. And I was like, huh, Walk me through what happened for you here? And he was like, oh, well, she's got X, Y and Z.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:06:48]:

And so I brought these things. And I was like, right, so what is Sage, our son? What will he typically eat tonight? And he was like, a burrito with rice, beans and cheese. And I was like, correct, there's no cheese and no rice. And he was like, ah, sure, sure. And in that moment, like, I know that executive functioning comes very easily to me. I'm really good at the organisational planning side of things. And being like, okay, this is what she has. I know.

Stephanie Rigg [00:07:16]:

Tangent.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:07:17]:

Correct. And for him, that's a challenge. His brain works harder to do that. And there are things that his brain does easier than my brain does. And knowing that about him and how his brain operates, instead of being like, oh, my God, can you just pause and think through what is Sage gonna need for dinner? And bring those things instead, I was able to be like, okay, yes. I could have said, hey, here's what she has. Can you make sure we have X, Y and Z? Because it takes my brain less than 30 seconds to think of those things and organise it. And it's harder for him.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:07:56]:

And so I could just have set us up for success instead of leaving, running the experiment. Yes, exactly. And I used to get frustrated in a way that now I have. Compassion. Yeah.

Stephanie Rigg [00:08:10]:

Because I think it's very easy to project out. If I were in your position, here's what I would have done. And the fact that you haven't done that must mean that you are careless, selfish, whatever other things I might layer onto that and then go and feel sorry for myself, make you bad. And then you get defensive and off we go into our very, very predictable pattern of, you know, attack, defend. And we end up both feeling worse off for it.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:08:35]:

Exactly. And I think I used to chalk it up to like, oh, my gosh, it's the mental load that I just. And carrying the mental load. And so you don't even think of these things. And if you paused and thought of them. And when I pull back and really look at. There are so many mental load activities and tasks and things that he carries that I don't. I've never once thought about when our car needs to be serviced or switching our tires to our snow tires, which.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:09:04]:

Cheers. We live in Vermont in the States and so that happens twice a year. And there's just so many things that I don't think about or consider because he takes care of them. And the prep for meals and making sure we have the food we need for meals is in my domain. That's one of the things I take care of for our household. And so I could sit there and just be annoyed and be like, could you use your brain for 14 seconds and not make me carry the whole mental load? And being able to step back and be like, oh, yeah, this is not usually the bag he carries.

Stephanie Rigg [00:09:34]:

Yeah. And I think that, like, your ability to pause, have self awareness, have compassion there, it just saves so much of that because every time we go through those cycles in our relationship where we play out the same fight we've had, you know, a hundred different versions of, you're just digging deeper into that same track and it just, you know, collects more evidence in favour of the same stories that are not helpful. And so being able to just pause and actually find the choice point in those moments and go like, okay, most generous interpretation. What might I find here?

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:10:07]:

This little Brene Brown there.

Stephanie Rigg [00:10:08]:

Yeah, exactly.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:10:10]:

And the reality is we spend energy and time anyway. Right. Like I'm gonna spend time and energy either being so annoyed with him and then being like, oh my gosh, Emily, I need to vent about this because he's the most annoying human walking the planet, or I can spend the time and energy in the self awareness, the self reg and then ultimately the self control of choosing my words, choosing my actions. And he, he, when I was like, help me understand and then what stage gonna eat? He was like, ah, shoot. And luckily it's our neighbours. And he was like, I'll just pop home and grab those things and come back and not a huge deal and an easy fix. And I got to not live in a place of resentment while he was doing that.

Stephanie Rigg [00:10:49]:

Yes. Freeing, I think all over the place.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:10:51]:

It's such a gift to me. Yeah.

Stephanie Rigg [00:10:52]:

Yes, absolutely. So obviously a lot of your work is around the parenting piece. What would you say we get wrong as a society when it comes to parenting?

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:11:03]:

The idea that behaviour is always a choice, that when somebody likes is. Say a kid goes and they do something and they know they're not supposed to do it and they go and they do it anyway and they can tell you outside the moment they're not supposed to do that thing. The idea that they're choosing that is ill informed.

Stephanie Rigg [00:11:26]:

Interesting.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:11:26]:

What we know to be true is that in order to access self control, where we can choose our thoughts, choose our words, choose our actions, our tone, our body language, in order to access that, you need to be in a regulated state, you need to have access to your whole brain. In order to be in a regulated state, you have to have tools for regulation that are readily available and that you know and can access and you have to have self awareness to know what it feels like in your body when you're getting dysregulated. So if I have a kid who's like, oh, I know I'm not supposed to hit my sister or yeah, I was supposed to do my homework and I didn't and then I didn't tell you about it and that feels like it's all on purpose. What I need to know is, does this kid know if I ask them outside the moment, what does it feel like in your body when you're embarrassed, when you're scared of getting in trouble, when you feel overwhelmed by the homework, when you're frustrated or mad or you feel left out or embarrassed or you're sad or you're anxious? If they can't tell me what it feels like in their body when, when they're experiencing that emotion, they don't have access then to tap into the regulation tools they may or may not know to then be regulated enough to access self control. So often we want self control, but we gotta start with self awareness.

Stephanie Rigg [00:12:52]:

It's so funny that you describe that because I feel like that's a lot of what I teach adults to do. Totally roughly.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:13:00]:

That's why a lot of the people.

Stephanie Rigg [00:13:01]:

Who I work with, so many different spaces, a lot of the people I work with, you know, struggle with anxious attachment in their adult relationships and like not really having a lot of intimacy with your own emotional landscape. Being very other oriented, you know, being very tuned into other people's emotions, but a bit kind of divorced from your own and not really knowing like what's going on in my body right now, what am I feeling, what do I need? Most adults don't have that skill set. So the fact that we assume that an 8 year old should, I think it's just like really, really. And it's funny, you know, I have a 16 month old and I mean, I feel very grateful to have done a lot of this work prior to becoming a parent because I think it's just been hugely beneficial in shaping a lot of how I approach that and a lot of the decisions that I've made. But even still, like, I'll catch moments of frustration when like, you know, he's tired right before bed and just like will smack me across the face. I'm like, buddy. And he like lifts his arm, I'm like, ollie, come on. And he just goes for it again.

Stephanie Rigg [00:14:04]:

And I'm like, buddy. And it's like there's a flash of him knowing that whacking me across the face is not the thing he's meant to be doing. But like he'll just go again and again because he's dysregulated, he's tired, it's the end of the day. And expecting him to make great choices as a 16 month old when he's tired, it's putting those adult expectations onto children and then getting angry or frustrated or creating some story of you're a bad kid or you're disrespecting me is just like wildly unhelpful.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:14:33]:

Well, and you make such a good point though, like when he does it once and then you're like, buddy, please don't hit me or I won't let you hit me, whatever comes out next. And then he looks at you and goes to do it again. That's where we often think it's coming from, a place of self control that they're choosing this. But what we know to be true is, yeah, they're tired and dysregulated in the same way that just the other night, I was in an argument with my husband. I was exhausted. I had had a day. And he was like, can we just pause this and, like, talk more tomorrow? I just think we're both, like, fried today, and we're not moving forward in any of this right now. And I had the opportunity to just be like, sure, let's just go to bed.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:15:18]:

And instead I was like, well, you're just trying to get away from it. You want to run away from it because conflict avoidance, and you don't want to. For the love of everything holy, Alyssa, can we just pause? And it's not because I'm like, nope, I'm rolling up my sleeves with doing this exactly, like. Like, let's go. And it's not because I am choosing that and saying, you know what? This is gonna be best for my marriage. My husband just asked for a pause, stating that we're both tired, which is correct, and that we'll pick this back up tomorrow. It's not coming from a place of, like, this is the best thing for my marriage, or, this needs to be resolved tonight. It's not from a place of self control.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:15:56]:

It's not a choice. It's that I'm dysregulated and not noticing it, not aware of it, to regulate and then be able to make a conscious choice.

Stephanie Rigg [00:16:07]:

So what would have been the remedy in that situation? Is it like calling it earlier before you get to that point of dysregulation? Like, what would. What would you wish you would have done differently?

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:16:16]:

Just respecting him. Yeah. Just respecting him when he's like, yeah, yeah, can we pause this? Me saying, like, yeah, it feels hard to pause this right now. And, yes, we can pause this. And maybe that means. Yeah, but I can't just have small talk with you tonight. Like, yeah, I'm just gonna go listen to my book and go to bed. I don't want to talk about the logistics of the day or what the weather's gonna be or whatever.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:16:42]:

At that point, if I'm still too annoyed to just be kind to him. Yeah, then I'm gonna go listen to my book or listen to a podcast. Just go to bed.

Stephanie Rigg [00:16:52]:

Yeah. The gear shift from. Okay, we'll press pause. But I'm not gonna. I can't just totally drop it from my system because it's still there.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:16:59]:

Yeah. I can't pretend it doesn't exist. Right now, I am still very much annoyed with you. Yeah.

Stephanie Rigg [00:17:03]:

Yes. Yeah. Which, again, goes back to, like, different people, different nervous systems. I think some people can compartmentalise really effectively, and that can be, like, a great asset and also can piss you off if you're on the other side of it. Like, I. With an ex partner of mine, he would. You know, we'd be like, in an argument, and then he'd be like, anyway, I've got to go do work. And he'd just, like, shift and go straight into work.

Stephanie Rigg [00:17:27]:

And I'd be like, how can you be thinking about work when we're in the midst of this big argument? And I would create this whole story of, is this not even important to you? Because how are you able to do that? This whole elaborate thing? And it was just not really appreciating that we were coming at it from very, very different places. Yes.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:17:45]:

I will say that's a tricky part of parenting. And it felt easier when we had one kid because it was like, all right, we know he's gonna go down for a nap, or there's gonna be times where he's off playing. And there will be times for us to just focus on each other and continue. Like, when we have conflict or there's something we need to chat about. And now with two. There's so few times during the day where there's any amount of time where it's just the two of us to chat. And if we're in a conflict or I'm frustrated, and the kids also have needs, it's not like, oh, because we're fine to have conflict in front of them and model it, but it's like, we're in the middle of a conflict, and my son's like, mom, can you come help me with this? Or my daughter's, like, pooping over in the corner in her diaper. Whatever.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:18:31]:

Like, we still have to parent in the middle of it. And for me, that compartmentalization is so tough. And so what I've had to come to is, I will say it, and I'll say it in front of the kids so that when they feel the energy of the conflict, they don't think it's about them. And I will just say I'm feeling really frustrated about something with you, Zach, and I want to talk about it, and I want to find a time that's going to work where we can sit down and talk together. I think what's going to be easiest for me is to talk as little as possible to you tonight until we can talk about what's bothering me and to just say it in front of the kids so that. That's also modelled for them. They're not like, what is going on with mom tonight? She's batshit crazy and just like, on edge or what. And they can see, oh, yeah, sometimes you're in conflict with people and it's okay to be in the messy middle of conflict and not solve it right away.

Stephanie Rigg [00:19:29]:

Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's so profound. And I think back to my own family system, which, you know, love my family, but there were plenty of, like, plenty of things I don't want to carry forward. And I think one of them was, like, a lot of unspoken tension. And kids are so sensitive to that. And I was always so acutely aware of, oh, we're sitting at the dinner table and mom and dad are there some ice cold between them right now. But we're not going to talk about it. We're not going to acknowledge it. And so that just creates this hypersensitivity, hypervigilance on the part of you, the child going, if no one's going to name it, I guess I've got to try and figure it out on my own.

Stephanie Rigg [00:20:09]:

And that doesn't feel very safe because I thought you guys were meant to be steering the ship here, and yet it feels like you're not in control of this. And so I've got to be fine to counterbalance all of that other stuff that's going on over there. So I think that. That what you're describing is really beautiful. And even though, like, a lot of people might, you know, instinctively, that might sound really foreign, to have an acknowledgment of tension and conflict rather than a everything's fine, let's just put on a happy face. But, like, it's so obviously not fine. I think it's really risky, respectful to our kids and our families and our relationships, because it's really. The trust is built through the honesty.

Stephanie Rigg [00:20:47]:

Right. And, like, I've got this. It might feel a little hard or uncomfortable, but it's okay. And I'm here and I'm still, like, leading you through this and you don't have to worry or feel responsible. I think that's such a beautiful gift to give kids.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:21:00]:

One of the things that's hardest for me in life is when that, like, the neuroceptive sense, the energy reader of the space, is like, ooh, something's off in here. Or you can feel that energy being off, but nobody's naming it. Nobody's talking about it. It is one of the hardest things for me in life. In the same way that if I say like, oh, how are you doing? And you're like, I'm fine. And like, it stops there. And I'm like, no, but how are you really doing? You're like, yeah, I'm fine. I'm like, oh, you're not fine.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:21:30]:

And now I gotta get into this.

Stephanie Rigg [00:21:32]:

Yeah.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:21:33]:

Because then it feels so unpredictable. Right. If I don't know what's happening here, but that neuroceptive sense is saying something's off, that part of our nervous system is designed to keep us safe. It is designed to read the energy in the space or notice if, like, I had this experience the other day where I was just like, somebody's looking at me, you know, that feeling like, I didn't see anything. I didn't whatever. And I like turned around and this person was staring at me. And I was just gave them a look and they were like, are you seed? And so. And I was like, yeah, hi, yes, my name is Alyssa.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:22:10]:

But they. I could just. Just feel it. And it's. It's an uncomfortable feeling. And if they hadn't said, are you seated? And so. And I was like, yeah, actually my name is Alyssa, but yes, but if they hadn't asked that, then I'm going to create a whole thing in my brain of what is going on? Am I safe? Is that person going to do something to me? What's up here? And so when that sense is heightened, when it is in the driver's seat of our brain, it's there for a reason. It's there to let us know something's off here.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:22:38]:

And I. It is, it is one of the hardest parts about being a human on planet Earth for me is when you have that feeling and just nobody's talking about it.

Stephanie Rigg [00:22:47]:

Yes, I am very similar. And I think that part of that is probably partly being sensitive to begin with. But then combined with what I was describing, a family system where, like, a lot of things were there but not named. And so like, the hyper vigilance gets. That muscle gets really opened.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:23:05]:

My parents have never talked about a feeling in my whole life, ever.

Stephanie Rigg [00:23:09]:

I love that this is what you do now.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:23:11]:

This is what I do. Hey.

Stephanie Rigg [00:23:12]:

Hey, Mom, Dad. I wrote a book. You have a little read.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:23:16]:

You're featured in it, actually. You should check it out. There's some shout outs to you. My son, he's four and a half, and my parents were just staying with us for a week and there was like A little conflict between my father and my son. And later, I was debriefing with my son, and he said, why is Pa not saying I'm sorry? And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm 36 years old. I've lived with Pa for 36 years, and never one time in my life has Pa said, I'm sorry to me. And he was like, he never made a mistake. And I was like, oh, no, he made a lot of mistakes.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:23:52]:

One thing that's true is that Pa grew up in a house where the adults didn't say I'm sorry to the kids when they made mistakes, only the kids were supposed to say I'm sorry. And my son has not grown up in that. In our household. And he was just like, why? That doesn't make sense to him. And I was like, oh, this is so cool that that doesn't make sense to him. Because I grew in that household right where, like, it was believed that the adults did not apologise, that only the kids did. And, oh, man. Just the gift of repair.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:24:25]:

First of all, as a parent, that there's not a lot of guilt that I carry through the world and I hold currently, I would say, zero shame in terms of who I am as a parent. And it's not because I'm a perfect parent, but because I am quick to repair. I will pop in and be like, oh, man, when we were coming in from outside, I was so overwhelmed and I was not kind to you, and that wasn't okay. I'm sorry. Next time I'm overwhelmed, I'm gonna try to calm my body so I can be kind and that's it. And just move forward. And again, 36 years, not one of those. Not one of those.

Stephanie Rigg [00:25:01]:

I love that you say that because I was having this exact conversation with my partner a few days ago that, you know, obviously the parenting space is very polarised, and, like, a lot of people have a lot of charge. I take my hat off to you doing this stuff publicly, because when there are moments where I'm like, I personally find all things parenting very interesting, I'm like, maybe I could do some training in that. And then I'm like, I don't know if I'm brave enough. I don't know if my nervous system can handle expressing opinions in public about parenting. Because, boy, when you read a few comments sections, it's just, wow, okay. People get fiery real quick. Smart.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:25:35]:

I just read the comments section and you see their, like, shadows. You see their challenges. You see what happened to them. And I'm like, yes, at this point I mostly just see them with compassion.

Stephanie Rigg [00:25:47]:

Yeah, I think it's a lot of people who care a lot and so are very naturally defensive of the rightness of their way because no one wants to feel like they're being a bad parent.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:25:59]:

Right.

Stephanie Rigg [00:25:59]:

Everyone's trying really hard. And so the idea of I'm trying so hard and am I getting it wrong, that's really hard to hold. So it's much easier to make someone else wrong or, you know, be critical or judgmental of, of other people's approaches. But what you were saying around the shame thing, I was having that same conversation that like I feel so comfortable as a parent and like I, I said exactly that, like I have zero guilt or shame around parenting. And I think part of that is I feel 100% comfortable with the choices that we've made and the way that we approach it and, and like it's not about perfection at all, but it's just there is a value alignment there that makes it feel easeful even when it's not easy. And I think that that's a really beautiful thing because to what I was just saying about the comments section, I think that people who have kind of internal fractures around all of this stuff, that's where the sensitivity comes from a lot of the time is where you maybe don't have the self trust to fully back the choices that you've made or the way you've approached something. You don't have the confidence. And so as with anything, I think we get triggered by things maybe mirror our deepest fears or insecurities about ourselves.

Stephanie Rigg [00:27:10]:

And so if we perceive a shortcoming in the way we're doing something and then that gets, you know, a mirror gets held up to that in someone else and what they're saying or doing, then that's where we're very quick to react.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:27:21]:

I totally agree and will say that I do experience guilt in parenting. For me, guilt is, that is the emotion that lets me know when I'm out of values alignment, when I do lose my cool with my kids, or I feel like it skyrocketed more for me when I had my second and I'd be nursing my second and my first needed something and I felt like I couldn't meet both of their needs at the same time and would feel guilty for choosing somebody even if I knew, yeah, he can wait a minute and that'll be okay, like he'll be okay. I still would experience guilt there of ah, if I wasn't nursing Her I could go and just tend to his need right now. And so I definitely experienced guilt, but I. It is not an emotion that carries all day that like when I state it, when I say, man, you really need me right now and I'm nursing your sister and we both have to wait until I can come and help you with that. Gosh, that feels hard right now when I can just state that the guilt feels like seeing and then it dissipates. Yeah, exactly. And shame for me is the like, oh my gosh, I'm such a bad I am statements and that I don't feel like I live with as a parent, live with it in definitely other ways.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:28:46]:

There is for sure shame inside this body, but it is not in relationship to parenthood for the most part.

Stephanie Rigg [00:28:52]:

Yeah, yeah. And I think thank you for making that distinction. And again, I was only having that conversation the other day that like, I've only got the one child, but we will probably look to have another. And I was saying that like a part of me that has resistance to that is the anticipation of the guilt of having to divide myself. Because you know, something that's really guided a lot of my, the way I think about parenting is I think putting yourself in the position of your child, you know, when it comes to something like their sense of safety, emotional safety, physical safety. Like I think we, we think of safety in really objective senses. A lot of the time it's like, yeah, they're safe, they're fine. Like all of their, you know, key physical needs attended to.

Stephanie Rigg [00:29:31]:

They're fine.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:29:33]:

Yes.

Stephanie Rigg [00:29:33]:

And it's like, yeah, but put your in the shoes of a one year old. What's their view of the world and what's going on? And like, that's a very different picture. I mean, by the time that I, you know, if I have another kid, he'll probably have more capacity to understand that. But still there's this sense of like, I wish you had more context for things so that you know, from your sweet little point of view, like, you understood this more because there is heartbreak there in being everything to this little person and then bringing someone else, you know, bringing a new baby into their mix. It's like, I can imagine that as a transition is a lot.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:30:10]:

It's a lot. It's a lot. I think especially when, when you're parenting in a way where meeting emotional needs. I grew up in a household where having a roof over our head and food on the table and parents who honestly showed up to everything they were at. I was a multi Sport athlete and I was president of student council and all these things. And they were at everything. They showed up to everything. Our meals were taken care of.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:30:35]:

We had clothes and all that jazz. And. And for them, that was what they saw as success in their job as a parent and being there and meeting those emotional needs or the connection, needs, feeling, making sure we felt seen and valued and worthy was not what they viewed as their job. It's not what they experienced when they grew up. And so for them, I'd imagine that the shift, I'm one of five kids, the shift, as they added kids, felt as long as they could meet those physical needs for us and that we were physically safe, that great, they were doing it. And I wonder if economies scale. Great. Yeah, Legit.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:31:19]:

I wonder if my mom experienced less guilt because the standards are kind of different, right? Where, like, I'm parenting in a way where it feels really important to me to meet my son's emotional needs and needs for connection and to feel seen and valued. And that's in addition to the roof over the head and the food on the table and the clothes on his back and all that jazz. And so when his sister came in, my capacity and ability to meet those emotional needs all the time shifted that I wonder if my mom experienced that or not. You know what I mean?

Stephanie Rigg [00:31:56]:

Yeah. And it is, I think, like that generation of parenting, and I think a lot of people still parent this way. There's the backlash against, you know, that's coddling children or like, you're gonna turn them all into snowflake, that whole kind of narrative. And I think it's fun. Funny, right? Because so much of the research, as I understand, and you'll be able to talk to this, is that like, that's how resilience is actually, like true resilience is crafted through being able to be present with hard things and stay with them and like co regulate, create safety. That's what then allows a child to become an adult who can hold themselves through difficult emotions rather than numbing out or reaching for any number of things to try and get away from bad feelings that they never really learned how to. To be with and hold 100%.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:32:44]:

I mean, you see it in the adults around us, right, that there are so many adults that when they're having a hard feeling, when they are frustrated, they're either yelling, they're snapping, they. You're. It's coming out in that fight mode or an assertion of power or control or dominance, or they're running away from it, sometimes literally Running from it or they're scrolling social media to avoid it. And I mean, favourite coping mechanism when I don't want to be with my feelings, it's just like Facebook marketplace or online shopping. I don't even need to get the thing. I'm just like, fill a card.

Stephanie Rigg [00:33:18]:

Marketplace is great for that because you don't even have to be looking for anything available.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:33:23]:

Yeah, no, just like, is it still available? And that's it. I got that dopamine hit. And so I. When we are able to be with our emotions and allow them to. To be experienced, that's actually how we move through them. I mean, bless. I look at, like our political system today and there are so many humans. I'm like, oh, I want to have you in my preschool classroom.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:33:47]:

Or I want to go back and get to coach your parents and just help them let you know that you're loved and you're valued and you're worthy and that you're enough and that having power in control isn't what makes you lovable.

Stephanie Rigg [00:34:03]:

Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's easy to feel, like, hopeless, a sense of despair, pessimism. When you look at the state of the world and like, how not only.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:34:13]:

Tough country to live in right now.

Stephanie Rigg [00:34:14]:

Over here in the States, I bet, you know, not even just like at the leadership level around the world, but even, you know, broader trends of, like, youth mental health and all of the things on social media, like, all of that can feel like a pretty, you know, worrisome picture. How do you think about all of that? Like, obviously, I guess, balancing that against this, what seems to be a rising tide of more awareness, you know, the kind of work you're doing. I'm thinking of people like Jonathan Haidt and the anxious generation. And like, all of the work he's doing, it feels like there's a movement kind of swelling in the other direction to try and, you know, change some of these trends in a more positive direction. Do you. You feel optimistic? Do you have days where you maybe.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:35:02]:

Okay, yeah, I say I largely feel optimistic. I mean, I didn't grow up in a world where emotional intelligence was buzzwordy and now it is. And how freaking cool is that, that now it's in the zeitgeist to talk about emotional development, that there are schools globally that are looking at how do we support mental health for kids, for teachers, for the community at large. And as a human who, oh, man, for chunks of my life was like treading water to stay afloat, turning to alcohol or substances or coping mechanisms like shopping or being able to control things like food intake or looking at what can I have power and control over to feel safe in the world. As a human who had bouts of that throughout my life, I'm like, how cool is it that we're talking about emotional development now? That's so radical because I think with that there's not a world in which we can't have positive results from that. That kids are adults are learning more about how their brains and bodies work and that emotions exist and that you, even if people aren't talking about them, that they exist and that you're not bonkers for noticing that energy shift in the room and nobody talking about it. And that that's weird. And that to me is so dope.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:36:27]:

I don't think we have everything figured out. I don't think every system has it figured out. I think we'll continue to evolve in that realm and everything will continue to evolve. Right. Like the roles that technology play, as Jonathan pointed out. And I read the Anxious Gen and I'm like, also I feel like there's a lot of fear in there and not, not always a lot of support or structure for like, what does this really look like? How do you as an individual parent navigate this? So many adults that I have connected with after they've read the Anxious Gen just feel more anxious and I'm like, I don't know if that's solving the problem, but there are books like Power on is out now, it's a new book and I think that's super helpful for managing screens and understanding them and all that jazz. So there's, I think as, as the world is changing, so are our resources, so is our availability of research and the ability to understand how things are shifting and changing and to kind of have a pulse on how to fine tune systems. So yeah, I'd say largely I feel hopeful because my kids get to grow up in a world where some adults might apologise to them, where they get to have feelings in more spaces than I got to have feelings.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:37:44]:

Where they get to have some teachers and parts of their school systems that acknowledge that their brains and bodies work differently from the humans around them. And we're going to work to figure out what's best for you. Like that's all pretty new and pretty cool.

Stephanie Rigg [00:38:01]:

Yes. Yeah, I agree and I think that it's easy to focus on those big macro things and feel overwhelmed, but really the place where we can have so much impact is like in our families and our communities. And the ripple effect of doing this work is really profound. I would love to kind of wrap up by just circling back to something that you said earlier, which was that people can hear about like nervous system regulation and self care and feel like it's maybe got barriers to entry or it's like something that you're meant to do perfectly, that's meant to look really shiny and you know, feel like, oh, I just, I'm, that's just like another thing on my to do list or another thing that I'm, I'm doing wrong that I now feel overwhelmed by or guilty about. What would be like a better reframe or maybe the first step that people could take if they were wanting to focus on this, but in a way that doesn't elicit all of those feelings of overwhelm and perfectionism and whatever else.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:38:56]:

I love this so much. So the nervous system is what I could get the nerdiest about in my life. And because I, I, it, it really impacts everything. And when I got to learn how my nervous system works and how my husband's nervous system works, it totally transformed how I got to live, how we got to be in relationship. So what I did was I worked with a group of occupational therapists to put together a regulation questionnaire there. It's pretty in depth. You can take it at any age or stage. So you could take it for yourself as an adult.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:39:34]:

You can take it for kids at different ages. It'll give you age appropriate results and age appropriate questions and it will show you how your unique nervous system works and then what might be helpful for you for self care. So just to get nerdy with you for a hot minute. We have nine senses. I talked about neuroception earlier, that spidey sense. We also often hear of those five. Sight, sound, taste, touch, smell. And then there are three others.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:40:02]:

We have interception. This lets us know those internal cues. I am tired, I have to go to the bathroom. I'm hungry. My heart's beating fast. Those kind of internal cues. And then we have proprioception. This lets us know where our body is in relationship to other things.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:40:19]:

So the humans who this. I have low purposeptive awareness. What this means is I like bump into stuff all the time. I like always have bruises on my legs because I bumped into the corner of the bed or whatever. Yep. And the bed isn't moving anytime. It's in the same place. But my brain still is like I can't cut that corner correctly.

Stephanie Rigg [00:40:40]:

My partner, I'm exactly the same. My partner makes Fun of me. And I'm very tall, so I like to blame it. I'm like, my limbs are a long way away from my brain. It's like, it's a lot to coordinate here.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:40:49]:

That's so good. Yeah. No, and so our, our proprioceptive sense. And for those of us who have lower proprioceptive awareness, our body's constantly craving propriocept because it proprioceptive input to let us know where our body is in relationship to other things. So we are humans who we might enjoy co sleeping. We might like to have that baby on our body or to hold our partner's hand or to kind of snuggle up. Or I could have a massage for four days. 100%.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:41:20]:

Yeah. And then folks who have higher proprioceptive awareness. Actually myself son hated co sleeping. We had planned on it. And he has hyper perceptive awareness. He has a really big space bubble. Once we moved him into his own room, he slept through the night and we were like, oh, you hate being near us. And that's very much true to who he is.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:41:41]:

Now. He will say he likes. He'll stand inside of a hula hoop and he's like, I want this much space. And he has high proprioceptive awareness. He can bob and weave in and around things. He has a little like tractor he rides on. And I'm like, oh my God, he's going to hit that fence or that toy. And he just bobs and weaves in like accurate 100% of time.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:42:00]:

And then we have our vestibular sense. Our vestibular sense is our movement sense. It keeps us upright. It's responsible for our balance. And you access this by moving the plane of your head. So it could be like dipping upside down. It could be spinning. My husband sits in a swivel chair at work that can go back and forth.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:42:19]:

He's vestibular seeking and so that helps him regulate throughout the day. I would get motion sickness. I am vestibular sensitive. And so we have all nine senses. And for all of us, we fall somewhere on the spectrum for each of them from sensitive to seeking. So it either drains us or it calms us. And we're all different. My husband is visually sensitive.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:42:43]:

So for him, if there's like clutter in my household or I'm the annoying partner who's like leaving piles of laundry or piles of mail or whatever on the counter and he's like, like just put it in a drawer or just away from my eyes.

Stephanie Rigg [00:42:57]:

It sounds like we are very similar. Like my partner is like that. And I am like, not really fast about, you know, leaving my bag on the counter, but sound, I'm like, oh, me too. You know, my partner will play the piano and my one year old's like blowing on a harmonica and my dog's barking. I'm like, no, can't do it.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:43:15]:

This is how I die. Oh, my God.

Stephanie Rigg [00:43:18]:

Yeah, I'm gonna kill you all.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:43:19]:

Absolutely. And so my husband's a drummer and same I'm sound sensitive. And if he's like. Because there's always a song in his head, he's always tapping something. And if he's tapping at 9am and we're freshly rested and whatever, I can navigate it, I have enough capacity for it. If he's tapping at 6pm and it's dinner time, then I want a divorce. Right. So when we're looking at this, what we're looking at for this nervous system is understanding what drains you, what recharges you.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:43:46]:

So that when we say self care, we look at it as taking care of yourself. So you can take care of yourself throughout the day. You can practise that self care recognising it's not one size fits all. If I sat in Zach's work chair all day long, it's not gonna recharge me in the way that it recharges him. And so we put together this questionnaire. It's completely free. You go to seedquiz.com also there's a QR code in big kids. Pick your feelings for it as well and it will help you understand how your nervous system works.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:44:17]:

You'll look at, you can see all nine of those senses and see like your plus or minus. Are you plus two or minus two and what does that mean? And where do you fall? And then some ideas for what's helpful for you for reg. So seedquiz.com if you were going to do one thing, that's what I do.

Stephanie Rigg [00:44:32]:

That is amazing. That is a like, way more tangible answer than I was expecting because that's like actually a place so we can send people. It's not like go for a walk once a day. It's do this quiz and find out like it's, you know, it feels like the next step that then provides like a really, really personalised next step after that. So that's amazing. We'll definitely link all of that in the show notes as well.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:44:51]:

Yeah, good.

Stephanie Rigg [00:44:52]:

Alyssa, I feel like we could keep talking for a really long time about a lot of different things, but I know that it's getting late your time. Where can people find you? Your book, I think will be coming out pretty much the day that this episode airs. So that's Big Kids Bigger Feelings. So I imagine people can find that wherever they find books. Where else can they find you? What's best if they want to connect more deeply with your work.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:45:12]:

Yeah. So Big Kids Bigger Feelings is like the 5 to 12 year old range. If you have kiddos and tiny humans. Big Emotions is like kind of that birth to 6,7ish range. And I also read the audiobook for both of those. It's available in audio as well. And I hang out at Seed and Sew. Seed and Sew S E W over on instagram and then seedandsew s e-w.org is like our mothership where all of our resources are as well.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:45:47]:

Yeah. And we have a podcast, voices of your village. I drop an episode every Thursday.

Stephanie Rigg [00:45:51]:

Amazing. Well, we will link all of that for people to go and connect with you further. Thank you so much Lisa. It has been absolutely delightful chatting with you.

Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:46:00]:

Thank you so much for having me. I also could have hung forever if it wasn't 9pm my time.

Stephanie Rigg [00:46:05]:

I'll let you go to bed. Thanks. Alyssa.

Stephanie Rigg [00:46:11]:

Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things things, attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com and if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.

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Keywords from Podcast Episode

attachment, emotional intelligence, nervous system, parenting, relationships, child development, self-awareness, self-regulation, mental load, self-care, family dynamics, conflict resolution, marriage, somatic therapy, emotional literacy, behavioural choices, co-regulation, repair in relationships, individual differences, sensory processing, resilience, burnout, childhood emotional needs, adult relationships, neuroception, compassion, guilt in parenting, shame, family communication, children's emotional safety

#205: How to Process a Sudden Break-Up (AKA the "Avoidant Discard")

LISTEN: APPLE|SPOTIFY

Few things feel as destabilizing as a breakup you never saw coming. One day you’re sharing your life with someone, and the next the rug has been pulled out from under you—no warning, no preparation, no chance to process until it’s already over.

If you’ve been through this, you know just how painful, confusing, and disorienting it can be. And if the person who ended things had avoidant tendencies, you may have stumbled across the term “avoidant discard.”

It’s a phrase I hear more and more in online spaces—Reddit threads, YouTube comments, even support groups. People use it almost like a diagnosis: “I’m two weeks post avoidant discard.”

And while I deeply understand the hurt that phrase tries to capture, I also believe it can keep us stuck. So let’s unpack what’s really happening in a sudden breakup, why it cuts so deep, and how to move through it in a more empowering way.

Why Sudden Breakups Hurt So Much

Breakups are always hard because they represent the loss of an attachment bond.
Even if the relationship had challenges, your nervous system experienced that person as a point of safety, orientation, and connection. When that disappears overnight, it’s like being thrown into open water without a life raft.

For those with anxious attachment, the pain is magnified. Your nervous system is wired to anticipate threats and rehearse painful scenarios as a way to prepare. It runs constant “dress rehearsals” for rejection, abandonment, or conflict.

So when you are blindsided anyway—despite all the overthinking and vigilance—it feels like the worst fear has come true. Not only have you lost the relationship, you’ve also “failed” at predicting it. This can shatter self-trust and make future relationships feel even more precarious.

It’s no wonder sudden endings can send us spiraling into grief, anxiety, and powerlessness.

The Problem with the Term “Avoidant Discard”

Here’s where I want to be gentle but firm: calling it an avoidant discard may feel validating in the short term, but it ultimately reinforces a disempowering story.

Why? Because it frames the situation as objective fact: “I was discarded.”
This language makes the other person the villain and you the victim. It fuels shame, blame, and black-and-white thinking: they are toxic, I was nothing to them.

A more self-responsible reframe is: “I feel discarded.”
That distinction matters. Saying “I feel” keeps the focus on your emotional truth (which is completely valid!) without attaching to a rigid narrative about who the other person is.

When we cling to the “they discarded me” story, we risk cementing beliefs like:

• “I’m worthless.”

• “People always leave.”

• “Relationships can’t be trusted.”

Whereas naming our feelings opens space for healing. It invites curiosity: What wounds has this breakup reactivated? What part of me feels abandoned, and how can I care for that part?

What Really Drives a Sudden Exit

When someone ends a relationship abruptly—especially an avoidantly attached partner—it’s rarely about you being unworthy. It’s about capacity.

If they felt overwhelmed, unsafe, or unable to communicate their struggles, leaving suddenly may have seemed like their only option.
Is it unskillful? Yes. Painful? Absolutely. But it reflects their limits, not your value.

This doesn’t excuse hurtful behavior, but it reframes it as a function of where their nervous system was—not proof that love is hopeless or that you are disposable.

A More Empowered Path to Healing

Instead of spinning in online echo chambers that fuel blame, here’s what will actually help you move forward:

1. Grieve honestly.
   Allow yourself to feel the sadness, anger, and disorientation of the sudden ending. Name what feels unfair without projecting it outward.

2. Shift the story.
   Replace “I was discarded” with “I feel discarded.” This subtle shift keeps you connected to your truth without locking you into victimhood.

3. See their capacity.
   Acknowledge that their choice reflected their overwhelm, fear, or lack of skill—not your worth.

4. Rebuild self-trust.
   Remember: one person’s unskillful exit does not define all relationships. Stay curious about how you can cultivate safety and trust in yourself, so future connections feel less threatening.

5. Seek spaces that empower, not enflame.
   Choose resources and communities that help you process, grow, and reclaim your power—not ones that simply validate your anger.

Moving Toward Acceptance

At the end of the day, you can hold two truths:

• Yes, this hurt like hell. It felt sudden, unfair, and deeply destabilizing.

• And also, their behavior was about their capacity, not your worth.

When you can hold both truths, compassion (and even acceptance) starts to seep in. That’s when healing accelerates, and when you become free to create the kind of love you actually desire.

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FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:

• FREE TRAINING: How to Heal Anxious Attachment and (Finally) Feel Secure in Life & Love

• Download the FREE Anxious Attachment Starter Kit here
  

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:04]:

You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship coach Stephanie Rigg and I'm really glad you're here.

[00:00:23]:

Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. In today's episode, we are talking about how to navigate sudden breakups or sudden relationships ending in a way that feels really confusing and where you feel really blindsided and, you know, just kind of left in a lurch not knowing where that came from or what's going on. And obviously that can, you know, significantly increase the pain that we experience when a relationship ends. And of course, breakups are almost always painful and almost always involve a grieving process. But of course, when we add the shock, the confusion to all of that, that can obviously make things go from bad to worse. Now what prompted me to record an episode on this is that I have noticed in the past six months or so a huge uptick in the term avoidant discard flying around.

[00:01:17]:

I get questions about it all the time. I get DMs about it all the time. I have students posting about it in my course all the time and it's being thrown around as like an objective term. You know, people say I'm 2 weeks post avoidant discard as if that's just an objective truth. And I want to share a slightly different take on that today that is in no way intended to invalidate the very real hurt and pain that you may be experiencing or may have experienced in the past if you were suddenly broken up with by an avoidant person or anyone else. But I am going to be sharing some thoughts on why I find terms like that really problematic and unhelpful and why hanging out in the echo chambers of YouTube comment sections or Reddit threads where everyone's speaking that same language and pumping everyone up and fiercely nodding and telling everyone that they're in the right and the other person's the wrong and don't waste time on them and they're toxic and all of that may well be keeping you stuck. And so I'm going to offer what another more I would say emotionally mature and self responsible path forward might look like that I find to be a much more direct path to peace and acceptance than the one where we are swirling around and really kind of energetically tethered to the pain of that experience for much longer. Okay, so that's what we're going to be talking about in today's episode.

[00:02:38]:

All of that, why it's so painful and also why there might be more to the story than just feeling like you are the victim of someone's terrible behaviour. Full stop, end of story. So lots of validation and lots of hard truths mixed in together in today's episode. Now, before we get into that conversation, I do just want to remind you about my free breakup training. So if you have been through a breakup recently, or maybe not that recently, but you feel like there's still some stuff there for you to process, this new breakup training is really in depth and it goes into the things that might be keeping you stuck and three shifts that you can make to really step back into your power after a breakup so that you can actually meaningfully heal and move forward and, you know, break the pattern, break the cycle that you might be in if you keep ending up in the same kinds of relationships so that you can actually move forward and create a vision of a more healthy love. Because, you know, spoiler alert, when we just swirl around in these stories of victimhood and low self worth and this is so unfair, and why does this always happen to me after a breakup? We're not actually engaging honestly and meaningfully with not only our role in it, but, you know, what are we going to do differently next time so that we can take steps towards what we really desire for ourselves and our relationship. So I talk about all of that and more in my free breakup training and I would love for you to check that out if that's something that you're working through at the moment and you could use some extra support. And second, quick announcement.

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This is the final call for my event in London that is happening this Saturday. So the 13th of September. If you want to grab a last minute ticket, please do. I would love to see you there. I'm so looking forward to gathering with you in person, which does not happen very often, obviously, me living in Australia in person, things are very, very few and far. So it's a rare opportunity to connect in person and I would love to see you there. If you're free this weekend, grab a last minute ticket, grab a friend, come along. Okay, so let's talk about why sudden breakups hurt so much.

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Now, as I said in the introduction, breakups are painful almost always. And that makes sense because it's the loss of an attachment. And our attachment system is really designed to find safety and security in connection. And so when we lose that, even if the relationship was kind of dysfunctional or had its ups and downs and had its challenges. We are still ultimately losing a point of orientation in our lives. And that can be very, very challenging and can leave us feeling like we're just treading water and we don't know who we are. And add into that all of the potential logistical considerations around a breakup. If it was a longer term relationship and you're actually having to upend aspects of your life, your living circumstances or just your day to day routines, so many things can be thrown into disarray when a relationship end.

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Frankly, even if it were a shorter term relationship, you just suddenly don't have that same person that you are maybe messaging throughout the day or when something happens, they're the person you tell or you're the person to sit on the couch and watch Netflix with. The person that is your default person is suddenly no longer in that space. And the emptiness that can ensue is really challenging, of course, very painful. And there's a lot of grief there. Now when that happens suddenly, naturally, we just don't have the emotional preparedness. If we think about anxiety in the nervous system, really our nervous system is a predictive machine and anxiety's role in that machine is to warn us about all of the bad things that could happen. And you know, I often talk about this, that when we're in that mode of overthinking and playing out all these worst case scenarios and catastrophizing, as much as we can say like that's a bad thing that our anxiety and our nervous system does, really what that's trying to do is conjure up all of these intrusive thoughts, worst case things that could happen. And I don't know if you've noticed when your brain does that, you almost summon the feelings that you would feel ahead of time.

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And I like to think of that as your body, your nervous system trying to prepare you for that eventuality so that you can feel the feelings now, you can feel the stress, you can feel the panic, you can feel the overwhelm, you can feel the fear. And it's almost like if I'm having a dress rehearsal for that experience now, then I'm not going to be caught off guard. And I think our anxiety has such great fear around being caught off guard, around being blindsided, around being unprepared for a difficult experience. And so it works in overtime and overdrive to try and map out all of those eventualities, to try and prepare us for every possible permutation of a scary, painful, stressful scenario so that we feel more Ready, more armed and more able to protect ourselves. And so we can see that there's a really beautiful protective intent behind that now when, despite all of that overworking, all of that anxiety, all of that over functioning, we are blindsided, we are caught off guard. It can feel all the more terrifying and painful because that is the thing that we were desperately trying to prevent. And I think that that is true for a lot of people with anxious attachment patterns. A sudden change that we were unprepared for is almost the thing that we fear most.

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Feeling like we've had the rug pulled out from underneath us and we didn't see it coming. We feel so intensely vulnerable and powerless in those mom, it's like I've got nothing right? I have no way of protecting myself, of helping myself out of this. I haven't thought this through, I haven't prepared for it. And so that can feel really, really deeply disorienting. And I think oftentimes can kind of catapult us back in time to a very like young, vulnerable, powerless version of ourselves that just doesn't know how to deal with the situation. So naturally that's going to feel immensely painful and frightening and overwhelming. So I just really wanted to validate like why the suddenness, why the shock factor can feel so much worse, so much more painful than an ending that we maybe saw coming, or that was like a slow burn to the end. Because we can almost start processing the ending while we're still in it, while we're marching towards it, even while we're doing everything in our power to stop that from happening.

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A part of us is maybe resigned to that possibility and to the fact that that's on the horizon. If we don't have that time to prepare naturally, there's going to be a lot more grief and confusion. And actually, you know, as I'm speaking, you could liken that a sudden death versus someone passing away after a long illness. Those are very different grieving processes and you know, can certainly bring up different emotions. And that makes perfect sense. You know, we would never question that in the context of losing someone in that way. And yet when it comes to relationships and breakups, we tend to be a little harder on ourselves and, you know, put pressure on ourselves to just get over it when really there is some very real pain and grieving that has to happen there. I think the other piece, when it comes to suddenly being left, is that if we didn't see it coming, it can really hurt our self trust.

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And going into the next relationship then particularly if we already had a piece around not really trusting in love, not really trusting in the steadiness of relationships, then there can be this sense of. It only amplifies our hypervigilance next time. It only increases our sense of needing to be guarded or needing to be on high alert in our relationships, because you just never know when danger is lurking. And I think for a lot of people with anxious attachment, that already feels true. So to have that as the base and then to feel like you almost failed in your really important job to predict and prevent something from suddenly happening and then going into the next relationship, or if you've had those experiences in the past and naturally you've now collected a very, very powerful piece of evidence that, yes, I absolutely do need to be on high alert, because people can leave at a moment's notice and you won't necessarily see it coming. So it can certainly increase our sensitivity and our hypervigilance going forward to the possibility of being abandoned, of being rejected, of people leaving and us feeling powerless to stop it. With all of that being said, and I do really want to emphasise that, like, that pain is so real and makes so much sense. Okay, so now that we've got that piece kind of established that, like, yes, it's so painful, and it makes so much sense that it's so painful when a relationship ends suddenly, I do want to talk a little bit more about this.

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This avoidant discard thing, the language, the label, why I'm not a huge fan of it and what I would encourage you to focus on instead of just going into those Internet rabbit holes. Now, for anyone who has not come across this term, I admit I literally had to Google it recently to try and get myself up to speed, because, as I said, I'd been seeing it everywhere, and I really had to ask the question of, like, you know, who's teaching this and, like, where is it coming from and why is everyone saying it all of a sudden? And lo and behold, there are so many results of people who are using this term. And it's essentially from what I can gauge, you know, being used to describe circumstances where someone with avoidant attachment leaves a relationship very suddenly, just ends it out of nowhere, out of the blue, deactivates, pulls away, which, you know, can happen, of course, that someone can end a relationship suddenly and, you know, someone with avoidant attachment, if they get overwhelmed and decide that the relationship is not for them and they break it off, and maybe they do so very unskillfully, certainly that can happen. My issue with the avoidant discard language is that it treats that as the objective truth rather than a subjective experience. And I think it's much more self responsible to say I feel discarded, right? I feel blindsided rather than I was discarded. Can you notice the tone difference there? I was discarded, feel so emotionally charged. And there is this inherent villain victim dynamic baked into that. We are painting them as this cold heart person.

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You know, how could you do that to me? You discarded me like I was nothing. Again, of course it can feel that way. It can feel immensely painful, but it is much more emotionally mature and self responsible to say I feel discarded. I feel unimportant, I feel confused and hurt and lost and lonely. That is a much more honest engagement with what's actually happening there rather than describing the facts of the situation with very emotionally charged, projecting kind of language like saying I was discarded by them. And it's really not just about the choice of words, it's about the story that we've attached to that and the meaning that we are making. Because I think the person who's saying I was discarded is the person who is actually creating all of these stories around. I am worthless, I am valueless.

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People always leave me. Nobody loves me like I love them. People are so unreliable. People I can't be trusted. Like all of those stories spring from I was discarded. Whereas if we're saying I'm feeling discarded, we open up this whole other possibility to engage with our emotional landscape in a way that actually allows us to tend to and heal those wounds and the pain that might be sitting underneath the surface that we've been brought into contact with as a result of someone's maybe very unskillful way of going about ending a relationship. I think, you know, the other thing that needs to be said around this language is that it's. It sits in amongst this whole world of echo chambers online.

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Places like Reddit, places like YouTube, comments sections, even Instagram and TikTok where you will get a whole pylon of people cheering you on and saying like, yeah, you're in the right and they're in the wrong and just forget about them because they're toxic and all of those sorts of value judgments that again can make you feel momentarily better. And I do want to just acknowledge I should have said this at the start, I get it, because that used to be appealing to me as well. Once upon a time when I was really deep in my pain and overwhelm and a relationship with someone who was pretty avoidant and whose behaviour I Couldn't make sense of gravitating towards content like that that placed the blame squarely on their shoulders. That was juicy, right? That was exactly what I wanted to hear, was that it was not my fault, it was his fault, that it wasn't something I was doing, it was just that he was, you know, unavailable or that he was dysfunctional or that they were his issues. Right. But the problem with that kind of content is that you are sitting, trawling the Internet, watching videos for hours and hours on end, talking about how someone else is the problem. And so while that might feel like it's liberating you in some way from your own shame and self blame, it's actually keeping you stuck in the pattern because you're still obsessing over them. You're still, you know, so hyper fixated on them and understanding their behaviour and why they did it.

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Like you're still so deep in it. When you're engaging with that kind of content and when you're, you know, having those back and forths with anonymous strangers on the Internet again, I know that it can feel temporarily soothing or reassuring to feel like it's not you and you're not alone. And I'm certainly not saying, just to be clear, that it is you and that it's your fault. Instead I'm just saying that there's always more to the story than a very one sided, you know, villain, victim, Good, bad, right, wrong kind of painting of the picture. So what does a more empowered way of processing a sudden relationship ending look like now? As I've spoken about in other episodes more broadly about healing from a breakup, grief is going to be a big part of that. And part of your grief is grieving the suddenness and the unfairness and, you know, the conversations you didn't get to have, maybe the chances that you feel weren't afforded to you to make changes. You know, if someone just ended the relationship suddenly without saying that there was anything wrong, you know, there was no lead up to that. You might feel almost like a sense of injustice around that.

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Like you didn't even give me an opportunity to make changes or to know how you were feeling. And that feels like, you know, you've been deprived of common courtesy almost. And all of that's totally valid again. But what we want to be focusing on is feeling our own frustration rather than projecting it outwards. Whether that's, that's, you know, on the Internet in a random comment section or by continuing to have at this person to try and convince them of their Wrongness and why they shouldn't have done that, and, you know, how they have to give us another chance or whatever else it might be. We really need to see these sudden endings. Whether that's like in the form of ghosting, whether that's in the form of just a very out of the blue breakup that feels really kind of sudden and shocking and confusing, you need to see that not as evidence of someone's coldness or toxicity or whatever other labels you might want to put on it, but as a function of their capacity. Because no matter how it comes across to you, if someone pulls away from a relationship so suddenly and ends a relationship so suddenly, you can be certain that their system was in the.

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In such a state of overwhelm and fear that that felt like the best option and maybe the only option, that they felt so out of their depths, that they felt so confused or so overwhelmed or so afraid that having a conversation that bringing their concerns, that sharing their hesitations, any of those things clearly did not feel like viable options for them or that there was so much discomfort or anxiety around raising those things that just pulling the pin, just cutting it off, just saying, like, enough, I'm done. That was the only option that they really felt was available to them or that was the best option that they felt they had at their disposal. And you don't have to agree with that, right? Because a lot of people will say that's just childish. They need to learn to communicate. And like, I get it, right, of course, totally unskillful, no one is justifying that that was a good thing for them to do, it is just contextualising the reality that if they did it, they felt it was the best option and that their capacity constraints are as they are, right? There is no point arguing with what someone's capacity is. And so while we can absolutely be hurt by someone's behaviour, and while we can absolutely be angry that someone ended things in a way that feels terribly unfair and unskillful and, you know, lacking in respect or whatever else, right? All of that can be true. And it is always an expression of their capacity. And you know, where their system was at in terms of feeling overwhelmed, feeling unsafe, feeling totally out of their depths.

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So both of those things can be true and will be true. And that's why I think that having some curiosity and compassion is absolutely essential in a breakup as in a relationship. Now, that doesn't mean that you then have to forgive them if you don't want to. Although. Although I think that naturally, when we start to feel into what might they have been experiencing that I might not understand firsthand. That might be totally different to how I would have gone about it, but nevertheless was very real for them. I think naturally that paves the way for if not forgiveness, then at least acceptance and maybe a making peace with the situation. To me, I think that that is a much more constructive way of processing this than holding onto the blame and the how could you and all of that story that makes terrible person because I think that actually really feeds all of the cycle going forward.

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And again, what I alluded to earlier around, like we carry it into the next relationship if we've got the story of, you know, people just can't be trusted, rather than that person was struggling with their own stuff that led them to behave in this way. That's a much easier thing to carry into another relationship than people just can't be trusted. And people always leave at the drop of a hat. You know, it's much easier to process what happened when we're engaging with that, that 360 degree view rather than just sitting in our seat of pain and hurt. Okay, I'm going to leave it there. I hope that that has been validating for those of you who have experienced this as to why it's so painful. And I also hope that it has maybe gently challenged you if you have found yourself in those online rabbit holes or just in your own story of victimhood and blame, that maybe that offers you another view and another way of relating to the pain and what happened that might ultimately be facilitative of you finding more peace around the ending so that you can move forward with more acceptance. Okay, thanks so much for joining me guys.

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I look forward to seeing you again next time.

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Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things things, attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com and if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.

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Keywords from Podcast Episode

sudden breakups, avoidant discard, attachment styles, anxious attachment, relationships ending, blindside in relationships, grieving process, emotional pain, breakups and self-worth, victim mentality, breakup recovery, healing after breakup, echo chambers, Reddit relationship advice, self-responsibility in relationships, emotional maturity, self-trust after breakup, ghosting, feeling discarded, emotional overwhelm, relationship capacity, nervous system response, trauma in relationships, acceptance after breakup, forgiveness, coping with loss, healthy love, toxic relationships, patterns in relationships, moving forward after breakup