“How do I tell my partner they are avoidant so we can do the work?”
In this episode, I'm answering a question I receive all the time which is: "How do I tell my partner they are avoidant so that we can start doing the work?"
In this episode, I'm answering a question I receive all the time which is: "How do I tell my partner they are avoidant so that we can start doing the work?"
WHAT WE COVER:
the importance of being honest & self-aware about our intentions in introducing a partner to personal development work
navigating anxious attachment tendencies around the saviour complex, over-functioning and taking responsibility for what's not ours
why "the work" might look different for everyone
how to approach conversations about relational growth in a productive, balanced & healthy way
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:28.49 → 0:01:04.43
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's episode is a Q and A, and I'm going to be answering the question of how can you tell your partner that they're avoidant so that you can start doing the work? So this is a question that I answered on my Instagram stories earlier in the week and that a lot of people responded to and related to. And so I wanted to unpack it here and dive in in greater detail because obviously my ability to address the nuances of that question are somewhat limited in a 1 minute Instagram story.
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So that's what I'm going to be talking about today. Before I dive into that, I just wanted to share the featured review, which is on Attachment is like a shining lighthouse in the middle of a dark storm. Stephanie's not only opened my eyes to attachment theory and helped me learn about myself, but has also provided me guidance and clarity at times when my mind is racing about my relationship. Stephanie's voice is so soothing and easy to listen to, it could be on a meditation app. Stephanie structures her podcast in parts that are easy to follow, and her explanations are easy to comprehend.
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Thank you, Stephanie. You've been my guiding light on my journey to becoming secure. Thank you so much for that beautiful and very poetic review. If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierigg.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my master classes of your choice and for anyone else listening. If you haven't left a review before, I would so appreciate if you could take a minute or so to do that on Apple podcasts.
0:02:02.97 → 0:02:56.04
It is a huge help, and I have to say I've received so many beautiful reviews recently that I've really been spoiled for choice in selecting one to read out. And if I haven't read yours out, but you have left a review, please know that I've read every single one, and I really am so appreciative and touched by all of them. They're very humbling, and I feel very grateful for you. The other quick announcement is, just to let you know, in case you didn't hear earlier in the week, I've created a new Instagram account for the podcast so you can find it on Attachment. This is a place where you can get more podcast content if you really love the show and you want to see more of it in your feed, exclusive videos and stuff like that, it would be a huge help to me if you could follow along and share it with the people in your life and your community.
0:02:56.57 → 0:03:40.74
It all helps in getting the word out and helping the podcast continue to grow. Okay, so let's dive into this somewhat complicated, multilayered, messy question of how can you tell your partner that they're avoidant so that you can start doing the work? There are a few parts and pieces to this and I want to do it justice. I think the starting point is that we really need to tread carefully here. And I don't mean that in the sense of tiptoeing around someone's sensitivities, I mean in the sense of having a lot of honesty and self awareness around our motivation for doing that.
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A tendency that I observe in a lot of anxiously attached people and that I'm 100% guilty of myself. And I really need to, even now, monitor in myself is the tendency to kind of overfunction and take responsibility for other people's work, for other people's emotional experience and almost to think that I know more about their experience. Than they do and that I know what they need more than they know what they need. And to try and almost take care of that for them. And that's a really easy place to go for a lot of anxious people, but it also costs you a lot.
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So I think that I've spoken many times before about the saviour complex that streak in anxious people, that gravitates towards people who they see as needing their help in some way, making someone their project and thinking that particularly with more avoidant partners, I think anxious people tend to view them as emotionally underdeveloped, as needing nurturance. And so anxious people can self appoint in that way as the therapist, coach, mentor, almost nurture a figure for their avoidant partners in doing the work of becoming more secure and feeling more safe in relationships. And while I think there can be pure intention behind that, I think there can also be a shadow side to it. I think there can be aspects of it that are maybe selfserving, that are maybe controlling, that are maybe manipulative, that are maybe pretty critical of the person as they are today and really feeling like you need to turn them into someone other than who they are in order for them to be acceptable, in order for you to have this relationship. And so I think there can be a real tendency to hold on to the idea of who someone could
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be rather than the person that they are.
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And I think that when we have that dynamic in a relationship, it's not really helpful for anyone, because the person on the receiving end of it feels that they feel that rejection, they feel that criticism, they feel that disapproval from their partner, even if their partner means well and wants the relationship to grow into something that feels healthier and more connected. Oftentimes from the avoidant perspective, knowing what we do about avoidant attachment, that for many avoidant people, there is a lot of woundedness and sensitivity around feeling defective in some way or feeling like a failure, feeling like nothing they do is good enough. And so when they're having this kind of energy of you need to change in order for our relationship to work, that's oftentimes going to strike a nerve for an avoidant person that's going to really go to the heart of a lot of their deepest insecurities and so might elicit quite a big protective, defensive response.
I think another thing I'd say here is even if your personal view, approach perspective is not one that villainizes avoidant people and I hope that that's the case that's really important in the approach that I teach and the messaging of my work. The reality is that a lot of content out there does villainize avoidant people and does really paint them as the problem, as the bad character, as selfish, as narcissistic, as cold, all of these very charged and judgmental words and associations that are there.
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Earlier this week I saw a very popular large Instagram account with over a million followers refer to avoidant people as dangerous, which I just thought was incredible that that could be put out there for so many people to consume. But the reality is when that's kind of the tone of the conversation in a lot of these mainstream spaces, is it any surprise that you going to your partner and saying you're avoidant and we need to do something about it that's going to come with the weight of all of those conversations. So even if that's not your intention, let's just be mindful of the fact that that is a common conception misconception, I would say, around avoidant people. And so it's kind of understandable and natural that someone might push back against that and not really be receptive to you whacking that label on them. So those are just a few things to bear in mind to reframe what might feel like frustration on your side.
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If you do have a more avoidant leaning partner and you do want to be able to talk to them about attachment and the dynamics that exist in your relationship and where there might be scope for growth. Just be mindful of that backdrop, both for your own sake in terms of where it's coming from in you and what it might cost you and your system to take on that job of overfunctioning responsibility, taking nurturer, coach, therapist, and also what it must feel like for them to be on the receiving end of that. In the context of all of the stuff that we know gets discussed about avoidance attachment that is not very favourable or compassionate. With all of that being said, I want to make really clear that I'm not suggesting that that means you just need to kind of suck it up and not have any expectations. Not talk to your partner about dynamics in your relationship that might not be working very well, that you're not allowed to talk about growth with them.
0:10:06.50 → 0:10:43.51
That's certainly not what I'm saying. I think we just need to be mindful of how we approach those conversations. And a few tips that I'd offer you, don't be too attached to, pardon the pun, the labels of it or the way that the work needs to look. So even though attachment theory might really resonate with you and you might love doing online courses and you might want to follow all the instagram accounts and stuff, that's not everyone's cup of tea and that's okay, that doesn't mean that they don't care about growing together. It just might look different to you.
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And I think we need to have some open mindedness and flexibility, because if we're looking for them to be behaving exactly as we would again, that's just a little bit self centred and it's a little bit controlling, in that we're trying to define what their journey should look like by reference to what we think our journey should look like. So allowing someone to walk their own path while still hopefully being able to have conversations around things that might not be working or things that could use improvement. Another thing that I think is really important and helpful is to frame it as an us thing rather than a them thing. So it's not like you're avoidant and you need to go read all of the books and stop being so avoidant because your avoidance is the problem here. Again, that's an attack and it's going to elicit defensiveness that is just very reliable.
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And I'm sure that if you were getting that kind of energy from them, you'd get defensive as well. So I think that rather than me versus you, anxious versus avoidant or whatever, it's like, oh, there are some things between us where we get stuck. I've noticed that we get into these patterns. Would you be open to us talking about ways we might be able to navigate that better so that we can avoid having these big ineffective fights? Because I can assure you that your avoidant partner doesn't like those cycles either.
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They don't like, you know, those big emotional upsets and ruptures and then the ineffective repair conversations that drag on for 2 hours. I promise you that that's not what they want either. So I think the more that you can frame it as us against the problem rather than me against you, that's going to be a much more palatable entry point into a conversation for anyone. But certainly for an avoidant partner, I think another thing you can do is lead with your own acknowledgment of your stuff, right? Because again, I think there is a tendency for anxious people to go you have this thing, there's a name for what you are and here are all of the problems with that, here are all the behavioural manifestations of it and here's what you need to do about it.
0:13:06.57 → 0:13:24.49
I think if you can go, I'm totally guilty of this. This is who I am. I notice a lot of myself in these patterns and that drives all of these behaviours in me. And I totally recognise that that must be kind of challenging for you and I'm really sorry for that. I'm going to work on it.
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Take responsibility for your side of the street and kind of lead by example there, because I think the more you can do that again, it reinforces that it's not you on your high horse, diagnosing them with some sort of defect and telling them that they need to change or else no one's going to respond well to that. So I think that the more that you can implement those things and go into any conversation with kind of clean intentions and clean energy, I think that will serve you in really good stead. So, just to sum up, it's not about never approaching conversations with an avoidant partner about change or growth. I would never suggest that my partner leans avoidant and we do a lot of growth work on an ongoing basis. So it's not to say that you just can't touch that.
0:14:21.39 → 0:15:04.23
It's just being really mindful of the way that you approach it, for your own sake, for their sake, for the sake of your relationship. Because just telling them that they're avoidant and then expecting them to walk the same path and trajectory as you might in your own process of becoming more secure and shifting patterns can veer very quickly into that overfunctioning responsibility, taking controlling territory, and that tends not to end well. So I hope that that's been helpful and has given you some food for thought, some things to reflect upon. And if you've enjoyed this episode, please do leave a rating and a review. I really appreciate it so much.
0:15:04.32 → 0:15:20.10
And just another reminder to follow along on Instagram, the new account at On Attachment. All of that is linked in the show notes. Okay, guys, thanks so much for joining me. I will see you again next week. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment.
0:15:20.21 --> 0:15:39.14
If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can follow me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
5 Similarities Between Anxious & Avoidant People
We often speak about the many ways in which anxious and avoidantly attached people differ in their relationship styles. But in this episode, I'm flipping the script and highlighting some similarities between these so-called conflicting styles. We cover relationship fears, boundaries, vulnerability, conflict and more - and my hope is that you'll walk away with a greater capacity to approach yourself and the people in your life with curiosity and compassion.
We often speak about the many ways in which anxious and avoidantly attached people differ in their relationship styles. But in this episode, I'm flipping the script and highlighting some similarities between these so-called conflicting styles.
We cover relationship fears, boundaries, vulnerability, conflict and more - and my hope is that you'll walk away with a greater capacity to approach yourself and the people in your life with curiosity and compassion.
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my signature 8-week course Healing Anxious Attachment
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:27.77 → 0:01:03.59 - TRANSCRIPT NEEDED
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's episode is five tips for rebuilding after a long term relationship. So this was a topic that was requested by my Instagram community, and it's one that I know a lot of people struggle with, and certainly I've struggled with myself. I think that long term relationships ending can be very destabilising, and it's certainly a time and an experience when we can feel really filled with doubt and inner conflict and confusion and mixed feelings.
0:01:03.77 → 0:01:55.58
And so I'm hoping that today's episode will give you some clarity, some guiding principles, some tools, and some mindset shifts to navigate that process with greater self trust and greater trust in the process itself, which I think is really what it comes down to. I should also say that even though I will be speaking more so in the context of a long term relationship, all of the tips I'm going to share would equally apply to any breakup or ending. So if you've just come out of a relationship that wasn't long term, that was only a couple of months and you're still really feeling it and still having a hard time, rest assured that you can apply and adapt, if need be. The tools and the advice that I'm going to be sharing today. Before I dive into that, I just wanted to share a couple of quick announcements.
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The first being that I am holding a flash sale on my Master classes and my Higher Love course. It's 50% off, which is the biggest discount I've ever given on those. And you can get any of my Master classes. So better boundaries, which is all about boundaries, go figure how to navigate anxious, avoidant relationships and sex and attachments. So those are the three Master classes.
0:02:18.97 → 0:02:35.35
They're about 2 hours each. And my Higher Love course is a breakup course. And that's six modules. Fully self paced, self study, so you get instant access to all of it when you sign up. So you can use the code Love you loveyou at checkout to access that discount.
0:02:35.40 → 0:03:01.63
And I'll link all of that in the show notes. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is I stumbled across this show by accident a few months ago and I'm so glad I did. The podcast has helped me understand my own attachment style, and the sense of relief I now feel is massive. I finally know why I feel anxious and most importantly, what I need to do to become more secure. In fact, I've already started on this journey via the podcast and I've never before felt such a sense of calm.
0:03:01.68 → 0:03:27.15
I can finally relax. I'm looking forward to continuing this journey with Stephanie's podcast at the centre. Thank you so much for that beautiful review. I really love hearing that and it brings a big smile to my face. I think that your experience really speaks to the fact that so often what we need is just to be told you make sense, your experience makes sense, you're not crazy, you're not defective, you're not broken.
0:03:27.81 → 0:03:57.75
And understanding like, oh, other people are like me. And I feel understood and I feel like there's an explanation for all of this and there's a path forward. I think that in and of itself, before you even start taking those steps forward, is incredibly, as you say, relieving and calming to the system. So I'm so glad that that's been your experience. If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierig.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of those master classes that I mentioned earlier.
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Okay, so let's dive into these five tips for rebuilding after a long term relationship ends. The first tip that I want to offer you is allow yourself the time and space to grieve however you need to. I think collectively we're pretty uncomfortable with grief, whether that's grief after death or after any other ending. And I think it's really important to understand that the grieving process after a breakup is really biologically akin to any other type of grief. Obviously it can show up in different ways and circumstances will influence that, but it can take you through emotionally the same kind of process.
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And so I think we need to approach it and honour it as such. What that means in Practise is allowing yourself to feel those feelings. Granted, you may not be able to take three months off work to stay in your pyjamas and cry all day, and that's certainly not what I'd be encouraging you to do anyway, but allowing yourself the time and space to be with whatever emotions are arising, and oftentimes those emotions will be conflicting. And so preparing yourself for that without making it mean more than it does. So it is perfectly normal to feel doubt, confusion, second guessing whether it was the right thing to do, longing for that person, wanting to reach out to them, rehashing everything that happened, anxiety, confusion, all of these things are completely normal, expected parts of the breakup experience and that grieving process.
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And that's true irrespective of whether the relationship was healthy or unhealthy, whether the breakup was a long time coming or happened quite suddenly, we're going to go through some sort of grieving process and that's likely to come in waves. It's unlikely to be linear. And so I think the more we can go into that experience, expecting it, expecting it to be emotionally dense and turbulent, expecting it to come in waves, the less likely we are to take that experience and make it mean something. Because this is where I see people get stuck every single time we go, oh my God, I missed them so much. This cannot be the right decision.
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If this were the right decision, there's no way that I would miss them this much or we're both so upset. Doesn't that mean that we should be trying to make it work? Maybe, but also probably not. If I'm being really honest, I think I have another episode on questions to ask before getting back together with someone that you can scroll back and find. But what I always say as a starting point is if it's just missing them, then that's not enough.
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That's not enough of a reason to go back or to take any action with those feelings. Because missing someone is a completely normal, predictable response to a long term relationship ending. Again, any relationship ending, but especially a long term one. Because when you've been with someone for a long time, there is inherently a level of comfort and stability and predictability that you get from that relationship. Even if that relationship is dysfunctional and unhealthy and not working, that's still an anchor point in your life, that you come to navigate the world via all of your daily routines and habits and what you do, how you move about the world is influenced and shaped by the relationship.
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So when that gets taken out, you're going to feel the lack of it, you're going to feel the void and that is going to be uncomfortable. So again, being really realistic with our expectations so that we can go, okay, I really miss them. I feel really knocked off centre here. I want to reach out to them. I feel lonely, I feel sad going, yeah, okay, of course I do.
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Of course I feel those things. That makes perfect sense. That's part of the process. Okay? It's like if you injured yourself and you felt pain, you would expect to feel pain because that's part of the process.
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That's what's going on here. And we need to allow ourselves to feel that without frantically trying to fix or solve or make it go away. So the first one there is allow yourself to grieve without making it mean more than it does or getting stuck in the stories that can spring from those big emotions. The next one that I want to offer you is to really lean on your support people here and that will look different for everyone. But whether that's close friends who you really trust, therapist or other professional that you see family members, it's really important for a couple of reasons.
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I think there can be a temptation to isolate ourselves again if we're not comfortable with all of the big emotions and particularly if you're someone who has a bit of a tendency to not want to burden people with your stuff. If you're used to being the support person to others, you're used to playing the carer role, then it might be really uncomfortable for the shoe to be on the other foot, for you to be in need of that support when you're so accustomed to saying, I'm fine, don't worry about me. But the reality is you do need support in this period because, again, one of the key people in your life has been taken away and they are no longer in the picture. And so you're going to need to diversify where you would usually get that support from. So don't be afraid to ask for help, to ask for support.
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The other key piece in this one is from a nervous system point of view, you need active and regular reminders that people in relationships are good and safe and positive, that you are loved, that you can be held by other people and supported, that you can be cared for. That's very nourishing to your system and will really counter any other stories you might have around the unsafety of being alone. Again, this is particularly for people who do struggle with being alone. So people who tend more towards anxious attachment, you may have quite a lot of visceral fear around the aloneness that comes with a breakup. And so countering that by going, okay, actually, as much as my fear stories in my body want to tell me that I'm alone, and that's terrifying, I'm not alone.
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I've got all these people around me who care about me, who are invested in my well being, who I can lean on and be held by. And so maybe as much as my body wants to tell me that this is really unsafe and we need to do something about it, which might mean reaching out to your ex and trying to backpedal on everything, no, it's okay. I have other options. I have other support people. Here they are, and I'm going to be okay.
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I can resource myself to get through this period in a way that is grounded, that is supported, and I don't need to go into a really fear based state, even more so than I might already be, by isolating myself. Okay, the third tip that I want to give you is see this period as an opportunity to spring clean your life. So this will start to come in a little bit further down the track. I don't expect you on day three, after the breakup to start reinventing yourself. And to be clear, you don't ever have to reinvent yourself.
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There's nothing wrong with you, right? But I think that it can be really nice and can give you a sense of renewal and agency over the story and your role in it to go. Okay. This is an opportunity right. To see it as a fresh start as a new chapter, as a new beginning.
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And to step into that in a really empowered, deliberate way, rather than floating around rutterless going, oh, my God. How has this happened? I'm alone. I can't live without them, what am I ever going to do? Obviously that's not a very empowered story and doesn't really allow you to get intentional about what you want your life to look like in this next chapter and beyond.
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So see it as an opportunity to sprinkle in your life, to rediscover yourself again, particularly if you are someone who tends more towards anxious attachment or you otherwise know that you tend to really lose yourself in a relationship, so you tend to sort of become subsumed to the relationship container. This is a really great opportunity to carve out, like, who am I? What do I like? What would my ideal be if I weren't always thinking about someone else and what they like and what they're comfortable with? How do I want my space to look?
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What do I like to do with my free time? What food do I like to eat? What shows do I like to watch? What do I want to spend my weekends doing right? When we're so accustomed to factoring in someone else?
0:13:08.68 → 0:13:49.27
And potentially, if that's your tendency to defer to what their preference is, we can lose sight of that. And so this is actually a really, really beautiful opportunity for you to make it about you for once. So relish in that opportunity, relish in the freedom that this period can afford you. So don't waste that or lose sight of it, or be so distracted by the hard parts of the experience that you aren't noticing all of the positives. The next tip that I want to offer you is become the most fully expressed version of yourself that you can.
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So this is kind of in a similar vein to the previous one, but become more of yourself. So if the previous one was around, kind of revamping your surroundings and your routines and all of that to suit you, this one's about becoming more of you. So doing things that once would have scared you or doing things that you never thought that you could or that you've always wanted to, but you thought, no, I couldn't do that, right? Maybe you could, right? Challenge yourself.
0:14:21.86 → 0:14:51.56
Learn to overcome those fears or nerves or embarrassment or shame or any of those other things that have held you back from doing things that you've always been curious about or interested in. Right? So again, it's kind of easy and it's not a bad thing. I think it's just true, right, that it's easy to get lazy and really comfortable and cosy in a long term relationship. I think that a lot of us who are in long term relationships can relate to that, right?
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That it's easy to get a bit complacent around the way we spend our time. So see this period as an invitation, a permission slip to really broaden your horizons and live a little. So whether that's like taking up a new hobby, going to cooking classes, or challenging yourself physically, starting to work with a personal trainer or taking up a new sport or starting running or something that you've previously thought wasn't like you or you didn't have time for or would be too hard. I think all of those things can be really powerful in building up your self worth, your sense of self and your self confidence as you enter into this next chapter. So reflect on what would be the things.
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Maybe it's just one or two things at the moment. How could I infuse some newness or stretch my comfort zone a little so that I'm becoming more of who I am and particularly in ways that I felt I couldn't when I was in a relationship? So stretch out that comfort zone, okay? And the last tip that I want to give you is when it comes time to date, and that might not be for a while, so please don't expect yourself to be back out there in a month, particularly if it's a long term relationship and there's a lot of processing to do. There is absolutely no rush here.
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Expect to relapse, for want of a better term. So you might be feeling like super upbeat and positive and excited to get back out into the dating world and then maybe you download one of the apps and you feel really deflated and defeated and hopeless all of a sudden. Or you go on a couple of dates and it's underwhelming. Okay? Expect that it's going to be a bit of a process and don't expect to find your soulmate or the next person you're going to be in a long term relationship with on your first date or your first interaction on an app.
0:16:56.70 → 0:17:29.80
You need to be kind of bracing yourself for the process of dating, being hit and miss and being trial and error, and go into that with an open mind, with good humour. And again, try and see it as an opportunity rather than this drudgery, this frustrating thing that you reluctantly have to do in order to meet someone. Try and enjoy the process as much as possible. Try and approach it with a mindset of, oh, look at all these people that I get to meet. What a great opportunity.
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That's all it has to be, right? And when I say expect to relapse, what I mean is expect to be reminded of your ex in ways that you might not have been in the intervening period. So I think it's really normal and natural to have felt like you were over them. And then you go on a date with someone and they have a trait that annoys you and you're like, oh, my ex would never have done that. We always used to laugh at people who did that or dressed like that or said things like that or liked that thing.
0:18:02.90 → 0:18:26.19
I miss them. Or you might just miss how comfortable and easeful it felt with your ex. Whereas with all these new people. You're starting from scratch and it feels difficult, and you don't know each other yet, and it's a bit awkward, and so you really just miss and crave the comfort of the comfy pair of jeans that you've worn in rather than the stiff new ones. It's really normal to feel that way.
0:18:26.26 → 0:18:53.15
And again, try not to make too much meaning out of it. Comparing new people with old people is a completely normal thing to do, so don't then go. Maybe that means that my ex is actually the right person for me. Stay the course, stick with the process, trust in the process, and know that you'll get more comfortable with it. And as time goes by, you'll get to know new people, and what starts as being a little bit awkward and uncomfortable will slowly become more comfortable.
0:18:53.20 → 0:19:17.64
Right? There was a time where you didn't know your ex and you were in that same place with them. So just allow things to blossom and grow rather than writing them off straight out of the gate from a place of comparison or fear or anxiety or whatever else might be driving that response in you. Okay, so those were five tips for rebuilding after a long term relationship ends. I hope that that has been helpful.
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I did try to give you a bit of a spectrum there of advice ranging from very early in the process, post breakup, to that kind of midway point where you're starting to emerge from the darkness and rebuild and then ultimately going towards potentially dating again. So I hope that that's given you a lot to work with, no matter where you are in that process. If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful, as always, if you could leave a five star rating or a review. If you're listening on Apple podcasts. It really does help so much, and I'm deeply, deeply appreciative of all of you who have been taking the time to do that recently.
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It's very touching and humbling to me. Thanks so much for joining me, guys. I will see you again later in the week. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierig.com.
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And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review on a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to to see you again soon.