"Is he avoidant or just not that into me?"
In today's episode, I'm answering the question of "How do I know if someone is avoidant or just not that interested in me?" This is a question I get A LOT - and the answer might surprise you.
In today's episode, I'm answering the question of "How do I know if someone is avoidant or just not that interested in me?" This is a question I get A LOT - and the answer might surprise you.
I'm going to share a common misconception about avoidant attachment in early dating, as well as some hard truths about why we seek out people whose behaviour leaves us questioning whether they're interested or not.
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Apply for my 6-month Homecoming Mastermind
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
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You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge, and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship coach Stephanie Rigg, and I'm really glad you're here. You hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. In today's episode, I am answering one of the most frequently asked questions that I get, which is how do I know if someone is avoidant or just not that into me?
0:00:43.66 → 0:01:19.49
So I know that a lot of you listening will relate to this question purely by virtue of how often I get asked. It really is something that I'm hearing all the time from people. How can I figure out, particularly in early dating, whether the way someone's behaving towards me, which might feel sort of unclear or ambiguous or maybe not super interested? Do I put that down to the fact that they're not interested? Or is there something more different at play here that might be their attachment patterns, their avoidant attachment style?
0:01:19.83 → 0:01:41.43
How can I tell the difference and what do I do about it? So that's what I'm going to be talking through today. Before I dive into that, just want to share the featured review for today, which is this is the only podcast I wait for new episodes to be released every week. It's just that good. Even when I don't think the episode is going to be related to me, I find a new way to apply it to my life and be able to better understand the people around me.
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I recently started Stephanie's Anxious Attachment course, and it has flipped the way I experience relationships. I can't thank Stephanie enough for this magical gift of a podcast that came into my life just when I needed it. Thank you so much for that beautiful review. I'm so glad that you've been loving the podcast and healing anxious attachment. That is all very lovely feedback.
0:02:00.46 → 0:02:47.69
So thank you so much for sharing. If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierig.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my master classes as a way to say thank you. Okay, so let's talk about whether they're avoidant or just not into you. This big question that I always get before I answer it, and I won't be answering it in any sort of yes or no way, obviously, but I do just want to give the caveat and emphasise that there are a million and one different answers to this question depending on context and all of those things. So please don't take what I'm going to say as being true for your situation, but rather as something to reflect upon and to apply to your situation to the extent that maybe it feels insightful.
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But if it doesn't, then leave it. There's no need to panic and draw some sort of conclusion about someone else's behaviour based on what I'm about to share. I am just sharing observations and reflections from my experience and what I know to be true. So with all of that out of the way, with all of the disclaimers out of the way, I think that when we ask this question of is someone avoidant or just not interested in me? We are perhaps misunderstanding how avoidant attachment shows up.
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A lot of the time, in my experience, dating avoidant people and working with avoidant people and working with many, many anxious people who date avoidant people. Fair sample size. In early dating, most avoidant people are not in their avoidant mode, meaning they haven't been triggered yet. So their strategies of withdrawing or going hot and cold, those sorts of things probably haven't been activated yet, right? That tends to come into play a little bit later when things become a bit more serious, when they start to feel pressure, when they start to feel like there's a bit more reliance on them or dependability or they're expected to do things or all of that stuff that we know can feel overwhelming for an avoidant leaning person when their freedom starts to feel like it's being impinged upon in some way.
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But usually it's not at the very early stages of dating and I do tend to find that the people asking this question of how do I know if someone's avoidant or just not interested in me? Are usually asking that at a pretty early stage of dating, right? So I think that if you've been on one or two dates with someone, or you've just been messaging them a lot on an app and their behaviour is such that you're questioning whether they're interested in you and you're going, oh, is it just because they're avoidant because they're being really indifferent and they're not really messaging me, they're not putting in any effort, they're whatever, fill in the blanks. I think in many cases I think a lot of the time when we find ourselves asking that are they avoidant or just not interested in me?
0:05:07.74 → 0:05:28.22
At the very early stages of dating? Perhaps we're looking for an explanation that is better preferable than the thing that we're afraid to hear, which is that they just might not be interested in us. I should also say these things aren't mutually exclusive. Someone could be avoidant and not interested in you. So I think when we're trying to go, oh, is it this or this?
0:05:28.37 → 0:06:05.67
And how do I know whether it's one or the other? We have to recognise that there's a Venn diagram and there could be both, right? That's a bit of a side note. So the first kind of key piece here is that in my experience in early dating, avoidant people tend to show interest in people that they are interested in most of the time. Of course, not always exceptions, of course, but avoidant attachment doesn't usually manifest as being really coy or disinterested or indifferent towards people that you are actively pursuing and actively really interested in.
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The avoidant stuff tends to come a little bit later when the relationship feels like it's becoming exclusive or there's other pressure or seriousness involved in a way that then activates some of those attachment fears and their accompanying strategies. The second key piece, and this is more important by a long shot, if you are asking yourself this question of are they avoidant or just not interested in me? And this is the question of does it matter and what part of you wants to go on that expedition of finding out the answer so that you can solve it right? If someone's behaviour towards you is so confusing and inconsistent and indifferent and whatever else that you are already straight out of the gate asking these questions are they even interested in me? Or is there some sort of label I can put on them that makes this behaviour make sense?
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Does it really matter what the answer is? Do you want to persist in pursuing that connection when you're feeling like this? And to be very clear, this is not about demonising avoidant attachment and avoidantly attached people. If you're familiar with my work, you know that's not my philosophy at all, but a big part of my philosophy is taking responsibility for our part. And what I see all too often is anxious people going through a world of pain because they persist with people who the signs were there from the beginning.
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It's not even a sign, it's just plain to see oh, I was wondering whether it was because you're avoidant or you didn't even like me and rather than just going oh well, if I'm asking that question, that's probably all I need to know. I stick around and I try and be more of this or less of that, or try different strategies and techniques and ways to get your attention and ways to make you happy and make you show up and make you interested in me. Why do we see someone's indifference towards us or inconsistency as an invitation to try harder? That's what we really need to ask ourselves because that's where the growth is. And this is particularly true for you if it's a recurring pattern, if you consistently ask yourself this question of is someone avoiding or just not interested in me?
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Whenever we notice ourselves as the common denominator in a pattern in our relationships, that's where we have to look in the mirror and go, okay, what's going on for me here? And this is one where we have to go okay, what is it about someone else's disinterest or someone being lukewarm about me that feels like an invitation to prove myself and to try harder and to make them want me? Because that is our work, that is our worthiness stuff coming up. And if we're doing that with someone who isn't really interested then we are almost certainly just going to strive and strive and strive in the face of someone who didn't ever really care for us all that much in the first place, who was maybe kind of ambivalent towards us. And we made it our mission to change their mind, to convert them to be the one.
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And then we feel so hurt and disappointed when that doesn't come to fruition and we make it mean something about us and we fail to see how much of a role we've played in creating that situation and bringing ourselves to where we are. We throw our hands up and go, why does this happen to me? Why do I attract people like this? When really we've been a main character in that story again and again and again. Okay, so this wasn't really meant to turn into me standing on a soapbox and giving you this pep talk, but I think it's an important one because, as I said, I get this question all the time and it breaks my heart to see people who have a blind spot around their part in their pattern.
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So if you are someone who is dating and you're feeling this question of why do I always attract avoidant people, why do I always attract people who are uninterested in me or who treat me in this very lukewarm way? I think the better question is, why do I look past the behaviour itself and try and find an explanation for it so that I can then roll up my sleeves and get to work in trying to change them? Or change the way they feel about me, rather than just seeing it for what it is and directing my energy and attention elsewhere towards a person or even just myself and my life in a way that is far more fruitful and nourishing and supportive for my well being. Why do I make it my mission to change someone's mind about me? I think that's the really fertile ground for deep insight about ourselves and our patterns and whatever wounds might be driving those patterns.
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So I hope that that has been helpful. It might not be the answer that you were expecting when you started listening to this, but it might be the answer that you needed to hear if this is something that you struggle with. As always, super grateful if you could leave a rating or a review. If you're listening on Spotify, you can now leave a Q and a response at the bottom of the episode. So grateful for all of your ongoing support and I look forward to seeing you again soon.
0:11:31.22 → 0:11:55.98
Thanks, guys. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com and if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating it really does help so much. Thanks again for being here. And I hope to see you again soon.
The Role of Criticism in Anxious-Avoidant Dynamics
Today's episode is all about the role of criticism in anxious-avoidant dynamics. Both anxious and avoidant people have been known to deploy criticism as a strategy to manage fears and self-protect in relationships - but this will often look different (and be motivated by different drives) on each side.
Today's episode is all about the role of criticism in anxious-avoidant dynamics. Both anxious and avoidant people have been known to deploy criticism as a strategy to manage fears and self-protect in relationships - but this will often look different (and be motivated by different drives) on each side.
One thing's for sure: no matter how it shows up, criticism is really harmful to relationships - so if this is something you struggle with, you've come to the right place.
WHAT WE COVER:
how anxiously attached people use criticism as a protest behaviour
criticism as a way to convey our hurt
how avoidant people use criticism to sow seeds of doubt and create distance
how to identify the needs underlying our criticism so we can communicate in a healthier way
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Apply for my 6-month Homecoming Mastermind
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:00.41 → 0:00:48.98
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship coach Stephanie Rigg, and I'm really glad you're here. You hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's episode is all about criticism in anxious avoidant dynamics, so how criticism tends to come up and what different partners might use criticism for in an anxious avoidant dynamic.
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So this has been something that's been swirling around in my head, as is the case with many of the topics that I speak about on the podcast. And it's come up for me because I think that criticism, if you read any of the literature around attachment, you'll find that criticism is something that both anxious and avoidant leaning people will deploy as a strategy at various points in time to try and get a need met. And I think that as a broader point, if you're familiar with my work and my approach, you'll know that even these ostensibly unhealthy or problem behaviours, if we were to call them that, they're all ultimately trying to meet a need, they're trying to protect us against something, they're trying to achieve an end. And so looking at criticism through this lens of what am I trying to achieve when I criticise my partner? Whether that's inwardly, whether it's just our inner voice noticing the deficiencies of our partner and feeling very judgmental, or whether it's outward criticism and it's something that we are using to try and elicit a response or change or engagement in a partner getting really curious
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around.
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Okay, what's driving that? What is this really about for me? So that we can create a little space, create greater awareness and ultimately create the possibility of using a healthier strategy that's more conducive to a secure relationship and is much more likely to get whatever the underlying need is met than just being critical of our partner. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. Before we dive into that, a couple of quick announcements.
0:02:36.57 → 0:03:03.43
The first being I'm really, really excited to share that applications are now open for my Homecoming Mastermind. So I haven't spoken very much about this programme, but it is the most intimate way to work with me. It's a small group, mastermind. It runs for six months. I've been running the current Cohort since January and it has exceeded my expectations in every way.
0:03:03.50 → 0:03:39.32
It is a beautiful, beautiful group. We meet weekly and we have coaching calls. We talk about most everything you could imagine from relationships, relationship with self fears, insecurities, desires. We really cover the full spectrum. And it has been so very humbling to watch not only the breakthroughs and the transformations, but the way that the women in the group relate to one another and support one another and cheer each other on hold each other, in our tears and in our tender moments.
0:03:39.43 → 0:04:11.85
It has been incredibly healing, not only for the people that I've been guiding through the group, but for me as well. It's something that I look forward to every week. I will be starting another round of Homecoming in July and I am accepting applications for that now. It is by application only, just because it is such a small group and I want to make sure that we're a good fit on both sides. But if you are someone who is not brand new to this work, it's not really suited for someone who is just dipping a toe in.
0:04:11.97 → 0:05:15.70
If you're someone who's been doing this kind of work for a while and you probably have a lot of the self awareness and the intellectual stuff down pat, that maybe you're looking for a way to get to that. Next level of inner freedom and peace and worth and joy and liberation that can really only come with embodying and integrating all of the knowledge and all of the learnings. I would love to have you apply for Homecoming. All of the details of that are in the show notes or you can go directly to my website and if you have any questions on that one, once you've read through the registration page, feel free to reach out to me on Instagram or you can reach out to my team at support@stephanierigue.com. Okay, the second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, as always, and this one is stephanie's podcast and Higher Love course have helped me immensely.
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I started listening a couple of months before leaving my toxic, anxious avoidant relationship and used the tools from her work to get me through that hard time setting goals for the future and navigating putting myself out there again, I cannot recommend her highly enough. Thank you so much for that beautiful review. I really appreciate it and I'm so glad that you've found that empowerment through the podcast and Higher Love. If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierig.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my Master classes. Okay, all of that out of the way.
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Let's talk about criticism in Anxious Avoidant relationships. So, as I said in the intro, when it comes to something like criticism, it's really easy to fall into a pattern of self defence. And as I've often said, and this is a line I got from my therapist giving credit where it's due, if you attack someone, they'll defend themselves. And similarly, if we feel attacked, we will defend ourselves, right? That is fairly predictable and reliable, straightforward.
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And yet oftentimes we feel very justified in defending ourselves in the face of a perceived attack and we feel very frustrated when people defend themselves in the face of our attacks. Right? It is one of those double standards, but I think that we have to dig a little deeper when we notice criticism coming up in our relationships. And I should say at the outset, criticism is so damaging to relationships, it really very quickly erodes the connection. If the overall tone of your relationship is infused with negativity and criticism and nitpicking and blame and judgement, contempt even, there's no real space for genuine love, connection, care, appreciation, because that negativity tends to take up a lot of space and it tends to give rise to more negativity.
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So it's a really very quick downward spiral from that place and it can be hard to get out of. I think a lot of the time, when we're in a bit of a rut and maybe we're both feeling critical of each other, or one person's feeling very critical and the other is withdrawing or turning away from that, it can feel really risky to stop criticising. And this probably leads me into the discussion of how anxious attachment, people with an anxious attachment style might use criticism as a strategy and what need are they trying to meet? And I say they, when really it is we, because I've definitely been guilty of this myself, as always, I am not calling any of this out from a place of judgement, but rather of self awareness. So on the anxious attachment side, what role is criticism playing?
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I think what often happens is when we feel like we can't reach someone as an anxiously attached person, and particularly in partnership with an avoidant leaning person, you will often feel like you cannot reach them. Even if you can reach them in moments, you can't reach them all the time. And so the withdrawal of their availability to you feels threatening in some way. And this can be true in a casual setting or in a very long term relationship, but as soon as we feel like we can't reach them, and that leads us to feel some sense of uncertainty or lack of control, then we usually have this escalating, almost ladder of protest behaviours. So we might start with, this will be different for everyone, right?
0:09:04.17 → 0:10:02.08
It'll just depend on your specific brand of protest behaviours and what you have learned basically in the past has worked for you and what hasn't. We all tend to do this pretty subconsciously, but we have our very well sharpened tools in terms of getting our needs met. So it might be sulking, it might be stomping around, it might be huffing, it might be trying to elicit some sort of what's wrong so that we can then let someone know that they've upset us in some way. When that doesn't work, we might escalate and the escalation again might look different for different people. But as we sort of climb this ladder, I think criticism comes up as one of the strategies that maybe before criticism we try pleading or blaming or some sort of asking for something in a way that doesn't work, or we tiptoe around it.
0:10:02.12 → 0:10:40.33
We try to indirectly ask for what we need, but it doesn't quite land. And so then we escalate from there. And by the time we get to criticism, what we're typically doing is I'm in pain, and I want you to be in pain with me so that you know how I feel. Or I'm in pain, and I really need for you to understand how bad you are and agree with me that you are bad so that I feel validated in my pain. And so I might hurl these complaints or criticisms at you, telling you that there's something wrong with you.
0:10:40.40 → 0:11:23.35
Any normal person would know this, or you always do that, or you never do this, and RA in this quite attacking way. But the undercurrent for the anxious person is not, I am attacking you because I think you are terrible. It's I'm attacking you because I'm terrified that I'm losing you and for some reason, attack emerges as a way to get engagement from you. So if I can connect with you via this escalation in my communication, via criticising you and making you see how you've hurt me, then you'll change and then I'll feel safe again. And this can be really real and really big.
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We can have this feeling of I'm terrified that if you don't see how much you're hurting me, that you won't change. And I don't think we can survive if you don't change. So I need to get you to change. And when I ask nicely, in my mind, this is all very much story, right? If I ask nicely, you don't do what I want and so I have to ask not so nicely or tell not so nicely, try and control in order that we can work our way back to harmony as I see it, and I can feel safe again, right?
0:12:04.71 → 0:12:38.01
So there's a lot in that. And as I said, it will look different for different people. There'll be different flavours of this, but the undercurrent for the anxious person is I'm trying to criticise you to either get engagement when I feel like you're slipping away, so I might be in an argument and again, I've been guilty of this. Not in my current relationship so much, but definitely in a previous one. If my partner in conflict would leave the room, as he often did, he'd sort of just tap out and storm off and I would just go after him like an animal, right?
0:12:38.05 → 0:13:35.45
I was so incensed and enraged with the fact that he could leave me in that vulnerable moment where I was trying to express something. It felt so abandoning and uncaring that I would follow him. I would follow him around the house and just hurl the awful criticisms at him so that I could get him to see how bad he was and how much he was hurting me. And spoiler alert, that wasn't very effective and usually led him to withdraw further or if he reached some sort of breaking point to start hurling criticisms back at me. But that was really I can look at it now with clear vision and say I was just in this state of total panic that if he was unable to engage with what I was telling him he was doing wrong, and if he continued to invalidate that, then it would go on forever, and my pain would go on forever.
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And that terrified me. So I used criticism as a way to try and get that message across, to try and really convey the magnitude and the gravity of the pain that I was in. But again, not a very effective strategy because as soon as we throw those hand grenades, people duck for cover, right? It's just that defensiveness really inhibits any ability to receive the underlying substance of the message or the yearning or the desire or the fear underneath it. The vulnerability just gets cased in attack and venom and all of this stuff that really inhibits the connection that we so desire.
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So that's what it tends to look like and be driven by. On the anxious side, on the avoidant side, criticism is a little different, but it's definitely there. And I think that in my observation, of course, avoidant detachment is not my personal experience. So I am speaking from an observer point of view of people I've been in relationship with and worked with. I think that the criticism tends to be either a reaction against feeling controlled.
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So if you're feeling like someone's trying to control you, you might notice a real criticism of them and feeling very judgmental of them, really disliking them, almost feeling kind of repulsed by them and feeling critical of everything they do and say and represent. It's like you just feel this really visceral kind of disgust response towards them and can feel very critical about oftentimes quite banal things or quite arbitrary things. So that can be kind of a direct reaction to feeling controlled by them or feeling smothered, feeling suffocated, or it can be a little less direct and can just be sort of part of a broader subconscious distancing strategy. And basically that is a strategy that's going to go about collecting all the evidence as to why the relationship isn't right, why it's not a good relationship, why it's not a good idea. And so you might notice yourself becoming very NIT picky or critical or blaming of just all of these little things, right?
0:16:00.37 → 0:16:50.70
As I said, it's less likely to be a big outburst of criticism that's in a heated moment and it might show up more as an internal voice of doubt. So feeling, as I said, quite critical towards your partner, just all of the things that they do, the things that they like, personality traits, you might start to find those things really unattractive and feel quite judgmental of all of the things that your partner does. You might find yourself very frustrated if they're not doing things right or in the right way or the way that you think would be best. It's sort of like this sense of the ways in which we're different. My brain takes as proof that we are not a good fit because I feel very protective of my way.
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And so to the extent that you are different to me, I take that as evidence that you are less than and use that to support my protector story that this relationship is not right and kind of push you away using that criticism. So as we can see, they come up in different ways. Right. The anxious criticism and it's kind of emblematic of the broader dynamic there. The anxious criticism tends to be frantic and panicked and ultimately designed to get connection in this really survival driven way of I am this last resort thing of I need to get you to hear me.
0:17:33.23 → 0:18:23.33
So I'm escalating and I'm going to be critical of you. Whereas the avoidant flavour of criticism tends to be a little bit more under the surface and it tends to be around doubt and uncertainty and creating that distance or disconnection trying to find reasons and evidence that would support our safety strategy. If I need to go back to my aloneness now and I'm justified in doing that and that will be the best thing for me because this person is deficient or not right for me or bad or imperfect in all of these ways and here's all of my evidence to support that. Right, okay, so what do we do with all of that? I think, as always, it comes back to this thing of there's no quick solution.
0:18:23.38 → 0:19:01.70
It's not a switch we can flip off. These protective strategies are with us for a reason and they've served a purpose and we can see the ways in which they are blocking us from getting what we truly desire and maybe blocking us from experiencing safe, loving, healthy, thriving relationships. I think a really good first step. And if you were to kind of take away an action item from today's conversation, if this is something that you notice in yourself is the next time you feel the urge to be critical of your partner, go, okay, what am I trying to achieve with this? Am I trying to control my partner?
0:19:01.76 → 0:19:25.09
Am I feeling out of control and am I trying to get back to control? Am I feeling like I can't reach my partner, like they're slipping away from me? Am I feeling really hurt? And I want my partner to either feel that hurt as well or for them to know how hurt I am. And the only way I feel like I can do that, that I'll be taken seriously, is by getting really escalated.
0:19:25.91 → 0:20:10.73
Am I trying to spot doubts or imperfections in my partner so as to justify my withdrawal as a way to protect my fear? Of vulnerability and intimacy, all of these things. There's a lot in this. And having this lens of curiosity slowing down, rather than taking the surface thing, the surface urge or thought or feeling as true and meaning something about our relationship or our partner, can we instead get curious and create a bit of space and go, okay, what am I afraid would happen if I didn't do this thing? What am I afraid would happen if I wasn't critical or if I didn't say that or do that?
0:20:10.85 → 0:21:00.91
I think that question often leads us to really powerful insights about the purpose that that behaviour is serving in our relationship. And then once we have a little more clarity around, okay, this is what that's actually about for me, then we can start to create choice and we can start to consider what an alternative might look like. Right? So, to give an example on the anxious side, if I'm using criticism as a way to convey how upset I am and how scared I am, can I instead tell you that I'm scared? Can I say to you, I don't want to criticise you, but at the same time I need you to know how important this is to me.
0:21:01.06 → 0:21:18.48
And it's really frightening for me when I feel like I can't reach you or that you're not hearing me because this thing feels so big inside me and I don't know what to do with that. And I really need to know that you hear me. Can you tell me that you hear me? Or something? Right?
0:21:18.58 → 0:21:32.20
But can we say the vulnerable thing rather than the aggressive thing? Because again, attack, defend. That can be your other key takeaway from today's episode. If I attack, they'll defend. And the same goes both ways, right?
0:21:32.33 → 0:21:48.54
So, knowing that, what could I do instead? What would a non attacking version of this feeling look and sound like? And just try it and allow yourself to be in the messiness of it. Right. I personally love the example I just gave.
0:21:48.59 → 0:22:21.74
I love that kind of strategy because all it's doing is basically narrating what's going on inside you rather than acting on the thing. So rather than saying, you never do this, we can say, I notice myself wanting to attack you and I really don't want to do that. But here's what I'm feeling and not saying I'm feeling like you never do this and I'm feeling like you're a terrible partner. No, I'm feeling scared, I'm feeling lonely, I'm feeling really worried that you don't hear me or understand me. Right.
0:22:22.43 → 0:23:10.67
And taking responsibility for the stories, sharing vulnerably, what the feelings are, and then waiting through that mess together and finding a way to meet in the middle and find a solution. Again, the more we dig our heels in and commit to needing to find a good guy and a bad guy and right and wrong, we stay in that really oppositional, antagonistic energy, and nothing good comes from that. We don't get the connection that we all so deeply want when we're in that place. I really hope that this conversation has been interesting to you and that it's been helpful. If you've enjoyed this episode, it'd be so grateful if you could leave a five star rating if you're on Spotify or a written review if you're listening on Apple podcasts.
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But otherwise, I look forward to seeing you later this week for our Q and A episode. Thanks so much, guys. Take care.
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Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg.com or at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here, and I hope to see you again soon.