#129 Building Self-Worth & a Secure Dating Mindset with Dr. Morgan Anderson
In today's episode, I'm joined by Dr. Morgan Anderson and we're talking all about building self-worth, self-esteem and self-confidence in the context of dating. Dr. Morgan is a licensed clinical psychologist, attachment theory expert, relationship coach, and author of the relationship self-help book, Love Magnet. She is also the host of the Let's Get Vulnerable podcast.
In today's episode, I'm joined by Dr. Morgan Anderson and we're talking all about building self-worth, self-esteem and self-confidence in the context of dating. Dr. Morgan is a licensed clinical psychologist, attachment theory expert, relationship coach, and author of the relationship self-help book, Love Magnet. She is also the host of the Let's Get Vulnerable podcast.
In our conversation, we cover:
how insecure attachment styles fuel unhealthy dating patterns
how low self-worth and a lack of self-trust impact our dating mindset
common shifts that occur as you rewire old patterns and move towards secure attachment
practical tools and tips for shifting your dating mindset and building a secure dating persona
To connect with Dr. Morgan:
Listen to her podcast: Let's Get Vulnerable
Find her on Instagram: @drmorgancoaching
Visit her website: drmorgancoaching.com
Questions for Discussion & Reflection
How do your past experiences or attachment patterns influence your approach to dating and relationships?
What are some negative beliefs about yourself that may be impacting your self-worth in relationships?
Can you identify any adaptive coping mechanisms or protective strategies that stem from past relational trauma? How do they affect your current relationships?
How might self-compassion play a role in healing your wounds and developing a healthier approach to dating?
In what ways can you broaden your perspective on self-worth beyond the context of relationships? What activities or interests bring value and fulfillment to your life outside of romance?
Have you experienced a corrective emotional experience in your relationships that positively impacted your attachment style? If not, how might you seek out such experiences?
What are some intentional ways you can maintain a sense of self and pursue your individual interests while dating or in a relationship?
Have you noticed any urgency in your approach to relationships? If so, how might slowing down and reorienting yourself lead to more informed choices and healthier dynamics?
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Check out my couples course, Secure Together (& save $200 with the code SECURE)
Save $150 on my Higher Love break-up course with the code PHOENIX
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
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Episode Transcript
Stephanie Rigg [00:00:29]:
In today's episode, I'm joined by Dr. Morgan Anderson and we are talking all about building self worth and a secure identity in the context of dating, which I know is something that a lot of listeners are going to be really, really interested to hear about. Dr. Morgan is a licenced clinical psychologist, attachment theory expert, relationship coach and author of the relationship self help book Love Magnet. She's also the host of the let's get Vulnerable podcast and the creator of the empowered, secure loved relationship programme. Our conversation covers a lot of ground from why we get stuck in the same patterns, why we find ourselves going after unavailable people, why we would want to do the work, to rewire all of that. What that work actually looks like some really practical steps that you could start taking towards building a more secure identity and actually creating the kind of relationship that you want and enjoying yourself in the process. So I'm sure that you guys are going to love this conversation and I'm really looking forward to sharing it with you. Dr. Morgan, thank you so much for joining me.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:01:36]:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited about our conversation.
Stephanie Rigg [00:01:40]:
Yeah, likewise. So maybe we could start by you just introducing yourself and giving everyone a bit of a feel for what you do and the kinds of people that you usually help in your work.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:01:54]:
Yes, I am Dr. Morgan Anderson. I am the host of the let's get vulnerable podcast and I help women heal and have high self worth so that they can attract the relationships they my, I call it like my former life. I was a clinical psychologist, I still am a clinical psychologist. And then I saw how big of a gap there was in terms of attachment theory and people knowing about attachment theory and how to apply it to their dating lives. And I started this coaching business about four years ago and now have had the pleasure of coaching over 500 women and helping them become more securely attached and step into their high self worth version of themselves. So it's been a wild ride the last four years and I love what I do. And of course, as you know, Stephanie, for a lot of us who are drawn to this field, this really was a calling for me because it was my own personal struggle.
Stephanie Rigg [00:03:09]:
To say, is there that thread of personal story that led you to really knowing how deeply this was needed and having walked that path yourself?
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:03:19]:
Yes. Isn't that the case for those of us that really run with this? It starts with the personal story, and that was certainly the case for me of experiencing childhood trauma that then led me to really painful dating patterns all through my twenty s. And then I tell people that my rock bottom moment really was when I was dating a narcissist. And that relationship just got to a very unhealthy place, and I was kind of at that fork in the road of, I can keep doing this, but I know I am causing so much damage to myself and every relationship I go through is just getting more and more painful. So at that rock bottom place, I decided I need to heal, and I really threw myself into researching attachment theory and ways to rewire your belief system. I'm really happy to say I'm three years into a wonderful, healthy, securely attached partnership, and I think if it's possible for me, it's really possible for anyone.
Stephanie Rigg [00:04:30]:
Yeah, it sounds like there are some common threads in our respective stories there, because I had a similar experience of when I was younger, my first two long term relationships were, I think, just probably by pure luck, were quite healthy. But then I had this relationship in my mid 20s, which was really not healthy at all. Very dysfunctional, like very classic anxious, avoidant, every expression of that dynamic. And it was really only through that experience, as stressful as it was. And I look back and it's quite amazing to me that I persisted in it because I stayed in it for three years. Amazing to me that I persisted through so much dysfunction and so much just like, striving and pushing all the time, every day. But I really don't regret it at all because it was that that pushed me to the bring. And in a funny sort of way, I can look back now and see that the patterns that really came to the fore in that relationship were sort of latent in me in those earlier relationships, but they sort of weren't brought out as much because the relationship was more secure.
Stephanie Rigg [00:05:44]:
But it was only in really seeing those parts of myself that were exacerbated through that dynamic that I was able to then go, okay, this needs my attention. As much as it has a nice story to tell myself that it's all his fault because he's just a bad guy. There's a part of me that's getting something out of this because I didn't just walk away at the start right. There were all of the signs there. And I, for some reason, was attracted to that challenge. And so I think that having those experiences, it's not like we need to go and seek out awful relationships for the sake of growth. But I think when we can look back and go, okay, there's something in this that's more than just, oh, I just attract all the bad guys. It's like, well, what is it within me that is attracted to that? That really gives us a lot of fertile ground for growth and self exploration and healing if we're brave enough to do that work.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:06:42]:
Oh, so powerful for you to share that. It makes me think about the concept repetition compulsion, which, you know, where we are in our adult relationships, repeating unfinished business from our childhoods. And yes, there are those relationships like the one you described, where it is your unfinished business just staring at you. You can't avoid it. And you see those wounds that have never been examined or never been healed. And yes, it is an opportunity to do that deeper work so that we can then intentionally go into our future relationships. So it's a very empowering way to look at it. And I do.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:07:30]:
I'm incredibly grateful for that relationship that I went through because, yes, it was probably my most toxic relationship, and it is the one that made me say, this pattern has to stop and to finally really see my wounds. So, yeah, I'm with you now. I have a lot of gratitude for it. At the time, I didn't, but now I do.
Stephanie Rigg [00:07:57]:
Yeah, totally. So is there kind of an archetype of person who you're seeing again and again? Like, who are the kinds of people that you're working with? What are the things they're struggling with? Is there a pretty clear pattern or a few key patterns that you're seeing?
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:08:14]:
Yeah, a lot of the people that I work with have found themselves in relationships that don't end well or relationships that don't meet their needs, or they're constantly attracted to that emotionally unavailable partner who can't meet them? I work with both anxiously attached and avoidantly attached individuals, and also a lot of disorganised attachment. As you know, that's really common in my work, since that's so connected to early childhood trauma. And I think that oftentimes with disorganised attachment, we can just find ourselves in really painful dynamics. And then those folks are a little bit more motivated to seek help. So a lot of disorganised attachment, but women will come to me when they say, okay, I've blamed the dating pool. I've blamed all the guys, but now I'm taking ownership. I am the common denominator. I want to own my role in this and they're so ready to heal and do the work and they just don't want to be in pain in their relationships anymore.
Stephanie Rigg [00:09:32]:
Yeah. That sense of exasperation, of, like, surely it's not meant to be this hard. I'm looking around me and it feels like other people are managing to do this. And despite my best intentions and the fact that I really want a relationship, why does it keep ending the same way? Why do I keep finding myself? And I think a lot of what I see and hear from people is they're attracted to someone that really seems all kind of picture perfect until it isn't. And not only is that painful to play out, but every time you play it out, your self trust just kind of withers, right? Your ability to go, oh, do I just have terrible judgement because I thought things were one way and now it's this 180. And so then that really erodes my sense of self moving into the next relationship and the next person I meet, because I'm scared of my own, scared of myself, scared of my patterns. And so there's like this internal vigilant, just like this barren self trust environment. And I think that when we combine that with general anxiety or.
Stephanie Rigg [00:10:46]:
I talk a lot about how I think much of the time when we're afraid of something, we're afraid of our own feelings, I don't want to experience that because of the embarrassment or the rejection or the shame or the hurt that I might feel if that thing comes to pass. And so we just end up in overdrive and it sucks all of the joy out of it. I think there's just like, from all of these angles, people are having a really hard time navigating this, and it doesn't feel like it's getting any easier.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:11:18]:
Oh, I love that you mentioned this about self trust. That is such a key. And I do think that's a common thread in people that I work with, is just that disconnection from self and being unable to tell, okay, what is my past trauma? Or what is my insecure attachment style versus what is my inner knowing? What is the truth? What is my gut? And I know when you get to that place, it does, it just makes dating exhausting. And then you get a lot of people who overcorrect and they say, I'm never going to date again. And they're not in the dating scene. Right. They're giving up on love and just going to travel the world with their girlfriends. But then at the end of the day, they admit to themselves they do want partnership and they realise, okay, I have to go about dating differently and I think that speaking of self trust, for so many people, you probably find this. It started early on, that disconnection from self.
Stephanie Rigg [00:12:34]:
Yeah. And I think that one of the hardest things and something I hear time and time again and something I've experienced myself is like, how can I trust myself when I had this paranoia or this fear and it came to fruition and so it's like banking evidence in favour of the fear story that's telling me I was right. And so that protective part of me that's on the lookout, that's hyper vigilant, that's snooping or that's paranoid. When it gets proven right by an experience or a relationship, then that only bolsters the perceived importance of that pattern going forward. It's really hard from that place to go, okay, I'm going to just drop that and stop doing it because it feels like it's serving such an important protective function. And so I think there's all of these pieces that are operating there to keep us really entrenched in our patterns and we just keep spinning around in them.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:13:30]:
Yes, it's so true. And I love when people start to build self trust and they're gaining that inner knowing and they're hopefully moving towards secure attachment. I see those things as being so interconnected and they're able to feel when something is off early on. I've had so many clients who go, oh, my gosh, now that I've done this work and I'm moving towards secure attachment, I know that I just saved myself six months of games, six months of heartache. I felt it early on. I trusted myself and something that in the past, I would have just predicted it and catastrophized and yes, it would have happened. I was able to just remove myself early on and I think there's so much, oh, gosh, it's just such a big win to me. When we know what to invest our energy into early on and we can feel it.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:14:34]:
I guess it's preventative heartbreak. I love that so much. Yeah.
Stephanie Rigg [00:14:40]:
I think that it's probably not something that happens overnight, but you can, over time doing this work, take stock and go, yeah. Things that used to be attractive to me, I'm just so not interested in that kind of gameplaying or just that kind of energy, like flakiness, inconsistency doesn't do anything for me anymore in a way that it would have, once upon a time, really lit my system up and sent me into some sort of like, made me go in for more to investigate or to try and clarify or to gather information. It's just like that falls away a bit and you cease to be drawn to that kind of dynamic because you've built enough of the new stuff within you that's like, oh, that doesn't feel like a fit anymore for where I'm at, where I'm going.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:15:31]:
Yes, I love that so much. When you can start to feel that shift within you of being attracted to secure attachment and a securely attached relationship. I remember when I was doing this work on myself and feeling like, where did all of these good, emotionally available men come from? Did they just fall from the sky? Where have they been? The reality was I just wasn't attracted to them when I was in my disorganised attachment place. So it's so true that we can really change who we are attracted to and what kind of relationship dynamic is attractive to us.
Stephanie Rigg [00:16:16]:
Yeah, I posted something yesterday which was from a previous podcast episode and it was along the lines of when we've been in those really inconsistent, kind of chaotic, dysfunctional relationships, that intermittent reinforcement that we get is so addictive. And so when we then start to step towards healthier relationships, it can feel like it's just not doing much for us in those early transitional stages when you're doing this work. And I think a lot of people will experience that and relate to that, this sense of healthy feeling. Boring at first, yes. When your system is really calibrated to spikes and chaos and the person who is kind of mean to you or doesn't meet your needs or is really unavailable most of the time, but then they turn up and they take you out to dinner, that's going to feel so much better for your system when you're used to that than the person who takes you out to dinner every week and is really consistent and available, right?
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:17:25]:
Absolutely.
Stephanie Rigg [00:17:26]:
So recognising that, recognising that, that's a powerful system. And being really conscious about, like, which part of myself do I want in the driver's seat here? The part that is going to respond really automatically to those old patterns. Do I want to be led by that kind of like pinball machine lighting up inside me and just follow the feeling? Or do I want to make really conscious decisions in the direction of what I know is best for me and what I know is right for me? Because I think if we do just keep following those familiar feelings, we're going to follow them down familiar paths to familiar dynamics with familiar relationships, we know what we want.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:18:08]:
Yeah.
Stephanie Rigg [00:18:09]:
And then we go, oh, why does this keep happening to me?
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:18:12]:
Exactly. I love that you're talking about this. We talk about this in my community a lot. And one of the sayings I have is secure is sexy because it is part of that rewiring the brain to adjust to a new normal, to say, wow, emotional availability is really attractive and starting to learn that there's different levels of intimacy that come with that and a different kind of intimacy that is stable and predictable. I think what we find, and I don't know, this is my own personal experience, my clients experience. Maybe you relate to this, of when you've been in that for a while and you're starting to normalise into it, you then see, oh, wow, this is really attractive, this is really amazing and really different from anything I've had before. And I don't even know how to really put it into words. But you know what I'm saying, right?
Stephanie Rigg [00:19:17]:
It's like this deep nourishment that your system can actually just rest in relationships. And I think if you've always had a lot of insecurity, if that's been kind of the dominant force of your relationships has been stress and insecurity, it's probably just like the medicine that you didn't realise how deeply you needed it to actually just be able to rest in the safety of a relationship.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:19:42]:
I love that word rest because the word that comes to me is relax. That ability to relax into love and to create a partnership that really feels like home, that is easy. There's so much joy and love that comes from that, that so many people with relational trauma in their childhoods have probably never experienced that kind of relationship before.
Stephanie Rigg [00:20:14]:
Of course there's trust in it, right? It's really hard to trust that it's real. And so we can go so quickly to trying to find the problem or trying to find where it's all going to fall apart. When's the other shoe going to drop? When's it all going to go south? Because that's just what we know and that's what we've been really primed to expect, right?
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:20:38]:
Yes. And people who are becoming secure will have extinction bursts. You've heard of that term where you're learning this new behaviour, you're becoming securely attached and then your brain goes, hey, but what about this insecure attachment behaviour? What about all these old protest behaviours? That we've used before. Are you sure you don't want these? And then they come back with a vengeance. Right. So I have these women that I'm helping and they'll say, oh, my gosh, I was doing so well and then all of a sudden I had this huge anxious attachment spiral and really, that's extinction. Bursts of the brain saying, well, hey, this was our old way of being. This worked for us for a really long time.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:21:27]:
Are you sure you don't want this?
Stephanie Rigg [00:21:29]:
Yeah, well, I think when we've got those protective strategies that feel so deeply etched into us, it's like muscle memory. It's like if you're right handed, you're learning to write with your left hand and it's just like, oh, the pull to the old way. Those parts of you that really are protective, right, and were once adaptive, it can feel really scary. For those parts to feel like you're trying to make them go away, it's like, oh, you are bad, and I'm going to make you stop now. It's why I really emphasise approaching ourselves with self compassion and not being like, oh, I'm so fucked up, I'm so broken, I've just got to stop being so anxious or I've got to stop being so scared. Makes a lot of sense, right? My anxiety. What's my anxiety trying to keep me safe from. What's my anxiety trying to tell me and recognising that.
Stephanie Rigg [00:22:27]:
That part of you or those parts of you have been working really tirelessly to keep you safe for a really long time and that that's not something we need to make go away. We just need to maybe look at whether that's still adaptive to our current situation and environment and what we're working towards. And to the extent that it isn't, it's like, well, okay, can I come up with some new tools and new ways of doing things that are maybe a better fit for where I am and where I'm going?
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:22:56]:
Absolutely. When we are critical or we shame those parts of ourselves, we just maintain them and then we can make them bigger, we make them come out sideways. So 100% agree with you of compassion, kindness, curiosity, being willing to explore, what's the story I'm telling myself there? What needs a little bit more healing? What's the wound that's coming up? Right. And then I teach this in my programme about how do we then have compassion and then say, how do I realign with this securely attached version of me and what does my current healthy coping look like, but so many people, they don't do the compassion right. They're just beating themselves up and then they just want to try to move back to a healthier version. But we know you won't be able to move through things without that compassion. It's so needed.
Stephanie Rigg [00:24:02]:
Yeah, I think I often say the shame, it's just layering more and more stress onto a system that's already in a lot of stress. If I'm just making myself wrong for everything about my experience and when unworthiness and low self esteem is already at the heart of a lot of that, punishing ourselves, beating ourselves up, criticising ourselves, not going to make that better, right? That's just going to make that feel more true. All of our stories of low self esteem, low self worth. So I think that recognising that we have to turn things around there and that really starts within. It's going to be very hard to do any kind of meaningful growth or healing work from a place of shame and solve criticism. It just tends not to work very well.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:24:50]:
It's so true. It's so true. And then I think once people are in that more secure place or they've done some of that inner work and they're building their self worth, then what I know we probably both see is where people start to have new relationship experiences. I call these corrective emotional experiences. Right. And what I love about that is then you're gaining evidence for the healthy relationship, for the secure relationship. And I know how significant that is for people in their healing process.
Stephanie Rigg [00:25:31]:
Yeah, and I would say that's true even if you don't go on to be in a long term relationship and marry the person. It's just like, can I allow myself to really receive the goodness of this experience irrespective of what happens? I think the more we shift away from some of those insecure patterns, the more we can just be open to presence and curiosity in the dating process, in getting to know someone. And even if it's not a great fit, you might just find yourself really nourished by a connection over dinner and talking to someone and feeling a level of authenticity and confidence within yourself. That can be a beautiful corrective experience, even if it doesn't go anywhere or nothing becomes of it. I think that think it we are, then the more we can take all of that in and really receive it and receive the benefit of it. Whereas when we're in that really constricted anxious space, it's just such a strong negative bias. So it's like everything feels like a failure or a setback, just not perfect. And that's what we're trained to see and that's really what we take in.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:26:43]:
Oh, I love that you're talking about this because one of the things I would want to share is this idea that really healthy, secure attachment is the foundation in dating. And so many of us, if we don't have that foundation, we're getting stuck in those anxious, avoidant or unhealthy relationship patterns. And that's kind of really easy to pull us in and just get us stuck in that place. But when we have secure as the foundation, then we get to this really juicy, fun, exciting level of dating where we're able to actually look at compatibility and values and how do I want to feel? It's almost like the next level. I know for a fact when I was in an insecure attachment place, dating was just kind of this challenge and I was so wrapped up in fear of abandonment that I just wanted to make somebody like me and choose me. I couldn't access compatibility because I was so focused just on that attachment level. So I just think it's so powerful when just as you said, you get to a secure place, you're in this abundance mindset, you know your worth and then you're just exploring compatibility and values and do I even like this person? Is this someone where our lifestyles match up? Right. It's just such a juicier, more fun place to be.
Stephanie Rigg [00:28:16]:
Yeah. And I think that everything you say there around the sole criterion being like, does this person like me? For a lot of people, particularly with more anxious attachment patterns, it's just like they really like me. So great, let's go. And there's no sense of reciprocity around, like, am I scoping out whether I like them or am I just feeling really flattered, lit up like that deeply unworthy part of me loves the attention and loves someone pursuing me. And that's kind of all I need to get myself hooked into the pattern. And I think that when we tend to that part of us so that it's not so susceptible to those little bursts of ego attention, then the much better place we are to have a balanced approach where we are there and we're thinking about like, as you say, how do I want to feel? What are my values? What are my non negotiables? What are the things that are really important to me in a partner, in a relationship? And I think the other side of that, it's kind of this balancing act of we want to have clarity. And we want to be able to advocate for those things. And we don't want to be too rigid or prescriptive, like, we want to be open to being surprised by someone.
Stephanie Rigg [00:29:32]:
And I think that having that secure base within ourselves allows us to walk that line in a way that, as you say, is kind of fun, or at least feels like a totally different energy to a very constricted, anxious, rigid way of doing things, which is just kind of bracing for fear and trying to get someone to like us, which is not fun. Right?
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:29:59]:
Yes. I think about this deep knowing of, hey, if I've already chosen myself and I know my worth, and I've released some of my unfinished business from the past, then I can really approach dating with this blank slate. And I'm not here trying to get you to choose me. I've chosen myself. And it is just such a different approach. Yeah.
Stephanie Rigg [00:30:29]:
And I imagine as well, a key piece of that is I'm not making it mean anything about me at a fundamental level. If you like me or you don't, or however it plays out, I can be somewhat. It's not that we become immune to that. I think you can be really securely attached and still have hurt feelings or be disappointed or upset if something doesn't work out and you were really excited about it, but you don't take that additional step of like, what's wrong with me? This always happens. No one's ever going to like me. Those old stories that come up and drag us down, I think you can just be with that, whatever the emotion is without taking that additional step of telling really painful stories about yourself and letting that impact your worth at a really fundamental level.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:31:18]:
Oh, it's so true. So true. And I think about all of my years of, I'll call it unconscious dating, where I did have all those negative beliefs about myself, and I would just use whatever negative experiences happened to me in dating as ways to confirm those really unhealthy beliefs about myself. So our brains are very good at looking to confirm whatever we believe and that we look to our environment. So that's why I really believe in doing this healing work and looking at your belief systems and releasing your past so that when you do go into dating, it's a blank slate weighed by all of that. Yes.
Stephanie Rigg [00:32:09]:
So if we were to pivot to giving people a bit of a sense of the how on all of this, I feel like we've painted the picture of why you'd want to do it and what's possible. What does the how look like I love this question.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:32:25]:
I think it's a very important one. One of the first pieces is the commitment of I really do want to work on myself and I know how important this work is. So just making that decision and releasing expectations on how long it's going to take it is a journey. So I think that's very important of I make the commitment, however long it takes. The second piece would be awareness. You have to understand what are my current patterns, what is my attachment style. And then I take my clients through something called a relationship inventory, where we really look at all the dynamics of past significant relationships. That's part of the awareness piece, processing those old woundings and being willing to look at it.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:33:17]:
I'm not one of those coaches who's going to come on here and say, oh, just write out the life that you want and say your affirmations and then you'll have exactly what you want. That's not how healing works. The only way forward is through, as you know. So I really believe in examining our past in the beginning. Yeah.
Stephanie Rigg [00:33:41]:
And I think that intention setting is great and conscious awareness is great. And as we talked about earlier, there's a doing piece here. We actually have to step out into the world and let our system, our being, live out another version of things. Because if we have a lot of evidence banked up as to why our old beliefs or our old experiences are true and the only way, then no amount of journaling or visioning is going to be enough to shift that. It's a really great start, but it's only part of the story there. And I think that having that lived experience is invaluable. We really can't land in that new reality until we're feeling it in our body in a really experiential way.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:34:37]:
Absolutely, yes. So, yeah, definitely the awareness piece, being willing to show up differently with behaviours as you're describing, and showing up with new ways of being. I also really believe in identifying your securely attached identity. So getting really familiar with what would secure attachment look like in practise. So many of us don't have that model, we wouldn't even know what it would be. So really defining your securely attached identity and then using self compassion, use it to realign with that securely attached self when needed. So I guess those are some of the core things. I know we could probably spend a few hours going over the exact path, but I really believe in awareness.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:35:36]:
Rewire your brain with really healthy beliefs about yourself and relationships. Learn about your securely attached identity. Create that very clearly and then practise showing up differently.
Stephanie Rigg [00:35:51]:
Yeah, I would also add to that something that I will often say to people is like, when you're working on building your self worth in relationships or in dating, it can really help to work on building your self worth outside of that context as well. Because I think that particularly if you're, again, more anxious in your patterns and your tendency is for all roads to lead back to relationships. Right. Everything I'm doing, I'm doing it to find a partner and to be loved. I think sometimes if we're really laser focused on that, even if we're doing all this good work, can be with like, the strings attached of, I'm doing it so that someone will love. And so I think there can be huge benefit in broadening out our scope and going, okay, securely attached version of me would also have all of these other things going on in my life, right? And maybe I'd be practising more self discipline in other areas, maybe I'd be challenging myself, maybe I'd be taking up a hobby or whatever, but not having it all be in this very narrow funnel that is about securing a partner. Because I think the reality is that securely attached people do have much more balanced lives. And that sense of self worth is not just relational in nature, it's really essential to your identity and your self image.
Stephanie Rigg [00:37:18]:
And so I think that can be hugely helpful and pay really big dividends to broaden out the lens a little. And I know for me that that was a really big piece in building that up for myself and eventually leaving that relationship that I was in was that I was not even really focused on the relationship so much. I think I'd started to kind of detach from it, but I didn't quite have the courage or the confidence to pull the trigger and leave. But in the background, I was doing all of this stuff to really focus on, I suppose, anchoring in my own value and my own efficacy and capability. And these things that were not about love or romance or partnership, they were just about like, no, you're a valuable person and you've got this right, you're strong and you're capable. And I think that having those experiences in a kind of broad way can be really, really helpful. When it comes back to all of.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:38:19]:
This stuff, I love that you mentioned this. It's so powerful. I wrote a quote that did well on social media, and I think it's because it's a metaphor for this idea. But I said something along the lines of the kind of relationship where you're not my entire world, but you're my favourite continent to visit.
Stephanie Rigg [00:38:45]:
Yeah.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:38:46]:
Because I really love that idea. We cannot have our relationship be our entire world. It's not healthy for us. It's not healthy for our partners. My partner and I, three years together, we do something called solo Saturdays. We do whatever really fills us up as individuals on Saturdays. And we know that we need that time, and it's incredibly important. He's a fly fisherman.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:39:15]:
He loves fly fishing. And in my old relationships, I know I would have tried to force myself to take on his hobby to learn.
Stephanie Rigg [00:39:25]:
How to fly fish.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:39:26]:
I can't tell you how grateful I am that I am in this secure place. I am not buying a fly fishing rod. I'm not learning to fly fish. I celebrate that that's his. And I have my own hobbies. And it is very important to maintain that sense of self and you as the individual, knowing that that is so important to your own happiness and also to your ability to be a good partner.
Stephanie Rigg [00:39:55]:
Yeah, I completely agree. And I think the more that you can, if you're single at the moment, cultivate that really proactively and consciously and use that time when you do have more space to really figure that out for yourself. Because I think it's easy to fall into relationships and to get a little bit lazy and to kind of collapse into the relationship and kind of do everything together. It's like, figure that out while you're single. It's not that you can't do it while you're in a relationship, but it's a beautiful opportunity to figure that out while you're single and then be really aware of it and be really kind of diligent about keeping up those things. Because if for no other reason, then I think it's so rewarding on an individual kind of self level. But it's also much better for the relationship. It's much more attractive to have that separateness and to have distinctive lives rather than just to be kind of one entity again.
Stephanie Rigg [00:40:52]:
I think the insecure parts of us, particularly more anxious patterns, love that idea of just let's enmesh and become one, and then I'll feel safe because I'll have my claws sunk into you so deeply that I'll always know where you are, what you're doing, and I'll never lose you. Right? Yeah, but it's not sexy. Suck the oxygen out of it. Yeah. I think there's really a lot more to be gained from very deliberately fostering and holding on to that full, vibrant sense of self and then to be able to enjoy that in each other and appreciate that rather than becoming complacent and sloppy about those things.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:41:37]:
It's so true. Desire needs a bridge to cross, as Esther Perel says. We need that distance to be able to create desire. I say something much less sophisticated than that. I always say boundaries are hot. They really are. Boundaries are very attractive. So knowing what your boundaries are with your time and being able to maintain that no matter where you are in a relationship, I think that is one of the things that leads to healthy long term relationships.
Stephanie Rigg [00:42:15]:
Yeah, agreed. What would you say to people who are in the early stages of dating someone and who experience that urge to just fast track everything, to get to that place of certainty and kind of lock it down, because that in between space can feel really anxiety inducing, can feel really wobbly. What would be your advice for people who are in that kind of interim phase of dating?
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:42:42]:
I definitely have a few pieces. One is something I call reality testing. It's something that's using cognitive behavioural therapy of slowing down and actually taking stock of what is the reality here. How much time have I spent with this person? What do I actually know about them? Given where we are, what is the appropriate emotional investment? And one way I like to really frame this is, is there enough secure attachment in the relationship? Aka, do I know this person well enough? Have they earned my vulnerability right? Has that been established enough to support the level of emotional investment? So sort of thinking about it as like the foundation of a house, if it's not there, then I can't build on it. And reminding yourself, you owe it to yourself to slow down. Let someone earn your vulnerability, let someone show you that they can build secure attachment and really pace your emotional investment.
Stephanie Rigg [00:43:59]:
Which can feel so counterintuitive for a lot of people, right? It's like the opposite of everything that their body's telling them to do, which is like, faster, faster, faster, faster. Let's jump ahead to the part where we've said I love you and we move in together and I don't have to deal with all of this uncertainty. But as you say, I think that skipping ahead can come at a cost because you're kind of building the walls without the foundation there, to use your analogy. And that typically comes back to bite you. You realise that you haven't really done the legwork to justify the level of emotional attachment and investment that you've poured into this thing. And then if it does crash and burn, it's going to hurt a lot more because we had so much riding on it, there was so much pressure on it, there was so much investment that was maybe just disproportionate to reality.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:44:57]:
Exactly. And think about yourself as an intentional investor. We'd say that with the stock market, it's no different with your relationships of, hey, I need to really know, is this right for me? And your energy, your time, your love, that is your most valuable resource. So really just seeing it as, hey, I really do need to be intentional with how I'm investing this. And just like in the stock market, we want return on investment in relationships. Is this creating secure attachment? Is this something that can grow? Do I feel how I want to feel? You need to be willing to slow down and be that love scientist that's gathering the data on those things. And yes, it is so hard when that's not what you're used to doing. It can feel so foreign.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:45:52]:
But remember, if you want a different result, you have to show up differently.
Stephanie Rigg [00:45:58]:
Yeah. And I think also just reminding yourself that that urgency is, that's not a reliable feeling. Right. And that's probably not what we want to be, just blindly following. I think for a lot of people it's like, but if I slow down, what if they lose interest? It's like, probably not going to happen. And if it does, then that wasn't the person.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:46:23]:
Right.
Stephanie Rigg [00:46:24]:
If it's that feeble and flimsy that you slowing down and pacing this appropriately means they lose interest, then that's really good information too. Not your burst. If it's as amazing as it feels, it will still be there at a more sustainable pace and it'll probably be all the more amazing for you slowing down and taking that time. But as you say, I think that when we're trying to forge a new path, we have to be really prepared to not just do things because we feel a certain way. Well, I feel this, so I have to act in that way. Well, you have a little bit more agency than that. And reminding yourself of your capacity to choose something different, as strong as the feelings might be and it might be so overpowering, so overwhelming. But just like grounding yourself, coming back, okay, as you say right here, right now, what do I know to be true? What choices do I have available to me? What's the right thing for me to do? And hopefully on the other side of that process of kind of reorienting and grounding, it feels a little more spacious and a little less burgeon and catastrophic.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:47:42]:
Absolutely. I love how you describe that. I think about this in real life of, okay, you have the decision, what would that securely attached version of me do? And they probably wouldn't send the 17 text messages. They would go to yoga with their friends like they had planned. Right. We always have that option of, how am I showing up? What am I aligning with? And I'll tell you this. I think some of the first times you start to slow down and intentionally decide how empowering that is and learning, oh, I can slow down. I don't have to let my anxious brain or my avoidant brain decide what I do.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:48:27]:
I can be intentional and decide differently.
Stephanie Rigg [00:48:30]:
Yeah. It's almost like knowing that your first thought is going to be probably coming from the old part and just, like, waiting for the second thought, slow it down and not just shoot from the hip, because there's a really good chance that that fear brain is going to be sending you down an old path that might not be where you want to be headed. So just knowing that about yourself, and I suppose it comes back to that self awareness, and that was a huge part of my journey and my growth is just like, being able to notice it being like, oh, that's my anxious brain telling me to do the anxious thing. And I don't have to follow that. I can actually choose something different. I think the more it's like doing reps of an exercise at the gym, the more reps you do, the easier it feels, the more confident you are in that being an option available to you. And over time, the new way feels more natural than the old way. And that's a really powerful thing to experience.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:49:31]:
It is. I love that you said that. That's so true. And I think early on it's hard to believe that, but we know that to be true, that it really can become your more natural way of being.
Stephanie Rigg [00:49:44]:
Thank goodness. I know. Thank goodness. It really is something for me when I think back to some of the things that I would do by default that now would be so unnatural, like in conflict or it's like I wouldn't reach for those things anymore. It's not how we do things, because I've actually got this new way that works a lot better for me and doesn't cost my system so much, and there's a lot of peace and relief in having that. So it's very important work.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:50:15]:
Yes, it is. Yeah. And wow, what a gift you've given to your community. I've had the pleasure of listening to your show, and I'm just amazed at how much you've put out there and how good you are at explaining everything and sharing. I know you've helped so many people on their healing path.
Stephanie Rigg [00:50:38]:
Thank you. I really appreciate that. And likewise, it sounds like you're doing a lot of really important work and much needed. I know that so many listeners of the show are very much in this space and experiencing a lot of those patterns and repeat dynamics. I'm sure there's a lot of people who are going to get a lot of value out of today's conversation. Before we wrap up, where can people find you if they want to go deeper on your work or familiarise themselves with your podcast, Instagram, all of that sort of stuff?
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:51:08]:
Yes. Thank you so much for having me. And really, the best place to connect with me is on my podcast. With over 400 episodes now, it's the let's get vulnerable podcast available anywhere podcasts are aired. And then I do also spend some time on Instagram, and that is at Dr. Morgan coaching. Dr. Morgan coaching.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:51:32]:
So happy to answer dms and I do a daily informational post there. But the podcast really is where all the juicy stuff is. So cheque out the let's get vulnerable podcast.
Stephanie Rigg [00:51:46]:
Perfect. And we will link all of that in the show notes. Well, Dr. Morgan, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure. It's been so lovely to have you. Thank you so much for joining us.
Dr. Morgan Anderson [00:51:57]:
Thank you for having me.
Stephanie Rigg [00:51:59]:
This was lovely.
Stephanie Rigg [00:52:03]:
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com and if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here, and I hope to see you again soon.
Keywords from Podcast Episode
Anxious attachment, self-worth, healthy dating, rejection, self-improvement, secure attachment, relational trauma, self-compassion, shame, self-criticism, corrective emotional experiences, solo Saturdays, desire, emotional investment, intentional investing, self-awareness, self-trust, fear, relationship dynamics, Stephanie Rigg, Dr. Morgan Anderson, attachment theory, secure identity, coaching business, emotionally unavailable partners, disorganised attachment, healing relationships, personal experiences, clinical psychologist
#128 Why Avoidant People Tend to Struggle with Defensiveness
In today's episode, we're talking all about why avoidant partners tend to struggle with defensiveness. While defensiveness is far from being the exclusive domain of avoidant attachment, many people will attest to the fact that avoidant folks are often quick to become defensive in response to relational tension or ruptures - and that this can form a key piece in the negative cycle of many anxious-avoidant relationships.
In today's episode, we're talking all about why avoidant partners tend to struggle with defensiveness. While defensiveness is far from being the exclusive domain of avoidant attachment, many people will attest to the fact that avoidant folks are often quick to become defensive in response to relational tension or ruptures - and that this can form a key piece in the negative cycle of many anxious-avoidant relationships.
Understanding Defensiveness in Avoidant Partners: A Path to Deeper Connection
Navigating relationships can be a delicate dance, especially when it comes to understanding our partner's defensive behaviour. In a recent podcast episode, we delved into the topic of defensiveness in avoidant partners and how it can impact the dynamics of a relationship. Here, we explore the nuances of defensiveness and offer insights into how understanding and compassion can pave the way for deeper connection.
The Complexity of Defensiveness
It's not uncommon for individuals in relationships with avoidant partners to encounter defensiveness during conversations or conflicts. You may find yourself expressing a seemingly innocent comment or need, only to be met with a sudden and abrasive defensive response. This pattern can leave one feeling confused, hurt, and struggling to comprehend the origin of such reactions.
Avoidant Attachment and Defensiveness
Understanding the roots of avoidant attachment can shed light on why defensiveness becomes a go-to strategy for some individuals. Often, those with avoidant attachment patterns have learned to channel their efforts into being successful, competent, and productive as a means to gain validation and connection without engaging in emotionally vulnerable interactions. Therefore, when faced with expressions of need or emotional intensity, their defensive response serves as a protective shield against feelings of personal failure or unworthiness.
Compassion as the Bridge
Beneath the surface of defensive behaviour lies the tenderness and vulnerability of one's emotional landscape. By cultivating compassion and understanding for our avoidant partners, we gain insight into the depths of their defensive reactions. Recognising that defensiveness is a response rooted in self-protection can serve as a bridge to fostering deeper connection. Instead of immediately judging these responses as wrong or dismissive, approaching them with an open heart, curiosity, and compassion can pave the way for meaningful engagement and mutual understanding.
Expressing Needs in Relationships
For those with a more anxious orientation, expressing needs or concerns in a relationship can be particularly challenging when met with defensiveness. While there might be a desire to find the perfect script or tone to elicit a specific response, the path to deeper connection often lies in embracing vulnerability and honest, open-hearted communication. Engaging in conversations with a genuine spirit of curiosity and a willingness to be wrong or surprised can create the space for authentic, non-scripted interactions that drive growth and understanding.
Navigating Emotional Intensity
Another aspect to consider is the response of avoidant partners to emotional intensity. Struggling with their own emotional landscape, they might feel ill-equipped to handle intense emotional expressions from their partner. This discomfort may lead to defensive behaviours, such as dismissing or rejecting the validity of the emotions being expressed. Understanding this perspective highlights the need for empathetic communication that acknowledges the emotional challenges faced by avoidant partners.
Encouraging Growth and Understanding
In acknowledging the roots of defensive behaviour and underlying emotional vulnerabilities, a pathway to growth and understanding emerges. By validating and connecting with our partners on a compassionate level, we create opportunities for authentic engagement and nurturing of emotional intimacy. It's about recognising that every response from our partners is rooted in their own needs, fears, or pains and approaching these with an empathetic lens.
Closing Thoughts
Understanding defensiveness in avoidant partners is a significant step towards building healthier and more secure relationships. It’s an invitation to approach conversations and conflicts with open-heartedness, compassion, and a genuine willingness to understand the complexities of our partner's emotional landscape. While it can be challenging, this approach holds the potential to nurture deeper connections and pave the way for mutual growth and understanding within relationships.
In conclusion, fostering compassion and understanding towards our avoidant partners allows us to embrace vulnerability and non-scripted interactions, ultimately creating a space for authentic engagement and deeper emotional intimacy.
Questions for Discussion & Reflection
Have you experienced defensiveness or felt the need to defend yourself in your relationship dynamics, either as the avoidant partner or the anxious partner? How did you navigate or express this defensiveness?
Reflect on a recent conflict or disagreement in your relationship. How did defensiveness play a role in that situation, and what emotions or fears do you think were underlying the defensive responses from both you and your partner?
Have you ever felt dismissed or invalidated when expressing strong emotions or needs in a relationship? How did this make you feel, and how did you respond to your partner's defensiveness or dismissal?
From your perspective, what would be a healthy way to express needs or concerns in a relationship without triggering defensiveness in yourself or your partner? How can you balance being assertive with being compassionate towards your partner's vulnerabilities?
Consider how defensiveness may be linked to your or your partner's attachment styles. Do you notice patterns in how your attachment styles influence your reactions to conflict and emotional expression?
Reflect on a time when you struggled to show understanding and compassion towards your partner's defensiveness. What could you have done differently to foster a more open and empathetic communication in that situation?
How does vulnerability and openness contribute to reducing defensiveness in relationships? How comfortable are you with showing vulnerability, and how does it impact your interactions with your partner?
Think about a recent instance where you felt extremely emotional and your partner responded defensively. What do you think were the unspoken fears or discomforts that led to their defensive reaction, and how might you navigate these emotions together in the future?
Reflect on how self-worth and self-trust play a role in managing defensiveness. How does a strong sense of self-worth lead to healthier responses in challenging situations, and how does it influence your ability to trust yourself and your partner's intentions?
In what ways can you build a culture of openness and emotional safety in your relationship to reduce defensiveness and encourage honest communication? How do you think this would impact the overall dynamic and connection with your partner?
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Check out my couples course, Secure Together (& save $200 with the code SECURE)
Save $150 on my Higher Love break-up course with the code PHOENIX
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
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Episode Transcript
[00:00:25]:
Welcome back to another episode of on Attachment. In today's episode, I'm answering the question of why avoidant partners can struggle so much with defensiveness. So I'm often getting questions from folks who are more anxious leaning and who are in relationship with avoidant partners and who really struggle with this in conflict, in conversations, or maybe just in casual interactions, that there seems to be this real sensitivity and that their partners are very quick to become defensive. Often in response to things that can feel kind of innocuous, almost to the point where it feels like you don't really know what happened. You say something that you feel is pretty innocent and all of a sudden you're getting this big defensive response. It seems to escalate a topic of conversation or a rupture.
[00:01:21]:
It really takes the heat up very quickly in a way that can feel quite sudden and abrasive and confusing for you if you're on the receiving end of it. Now, of course, defensiveness is not something that is exclusive to avoidant folks, but I think it would be fair to say that it's a pretty common thing for people with more avoidant attachment patterns to really struggle with, and for that to be something that they lean on as a strategy to keep themselves safe, to protect themselves when they are feeling under attack. And it may be that their perception of what constitutes an attack might be quite different to yours, but that's all part of being in relationship, right, is recognising that our intention is not always the way something lands. And so trying to cultivate a level of understanding and curiosity for someone else's experience so that we're not just judging their responses as being wrong or bad and kind of vilifying them for that, we're actually approaching it with a bit more, as I said, curiosity, compassion, openness, non judgement, because that's really what's likely to get us the engagement that we're looking for, rather than just then making someone wrong for their defensiveness, which I think is where most of us go. And I know that for me, even still, it's a real practise of not immediately saying, why are you getting so defensive? You're being so unreasonable. Because that can be how it feels sometimes. And yet I think I certainly know from experience, and I'm guessing many of you listening will too, that that tends not to play very well. That if you start attacking someone for their defensive response, then that defensive response is likely to amplify rather than minimise.
[00:03:06]:
So that's what I'm going to be talking about today, sharing some thoughts on why, from what we know about avoidant attachment and its origins and the core wounds, why defensiveness arises as a really natural response and how we might start to work with that in a partner or even in yourself. Right. If you're listening to this and you notice that you have more of these defensive patterns, I think, as with anything, the more that we can bring consciousness to kind of connecting the dots on what purpose that behaviour is serving, then we're much better placed to come up with a healthier alternative and another way of doing things that meets the need or creates the safety, without having to rely on strategies that amplify conflict, that amplify disconnection, that amplify hurt and misunderstanding and leave us feeling worse off. So we'll be talking about all of that and more in today's episode. Before I dive into that, a quick reminder. You might have heard me share last week, or if you follow me on Instagram, you might have seen me share there, that I'm running a 28 day challenge called the secure self. It's kicking off on the 13 February and it's going to be all about building self worth and really understanding the different pillars of self worth. So if you followed me for a while, you might have heard me say before that I don't really love preaching self love advice, just telling people to love themselves more.
[00:04:38]:
And not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think that it just doesn't really land for a lot of people because no one really knows what it means and it feels really far away and hard to even imagine feeling self love if that's just not where you're starting from. And I think for a lot of us that is not where we're starting from. So I always tend to rely on concepts like self worth and self respect and self compassion, self discipline, self trust, which I feel more easily translate into tangible practises and acts and building blocks so that we can start to really repair that relationship that we have with ourselves, which is so foundational to any relationship that we'll ever have with anybody else. So I'm holding a 28 day challenge where we're going to have four weeks, four themes, an online community and two live calls. With me, so I'm hoping that it's going to be lots of fun. We've already had lots of people sign up in the last week, which is really great. And if that sounds interesting to you, it's all linked in the show notes if you want to cheque out the details. It's also hopefully relatively easy to find on my website, stephanierigg.com.
[00:05:42]:
So I'd love to see you there if you're interested. Okay, so let's talk about this avoidant attachment and defensiveness now, as I flagged in the introduction, and I want to emphasise here, that's not to say that every avoidant person is going to be really defensive and people who aren't avoidant won't struggle with defensiveness. I know for myself that I can be really defensive and really committed to seeing myself as right and as good. And to the extent that my partner, or anyone else for that matter, shares with me that they don't like something that I've done or that they've interpreted something that I've said as being other than what I intended in a way that I feel is an unfavourable depiction of me that's really hard for me to receive, and I do definitely feel defensive about that. It just tends to look different. Right. If you're more anxious and you have more of that people pleasing streak in you, then your defensiveness is likely to come out as more of a fawn type response. Right? It's more of a I've got to change your mind and kind of soften this and persuade you as to why I'm actually good and why you don't need to see me that way.
[00:06:55]:
But it tends to be through more engagement and more connection. Right. But ultimately it is a defensive response. It's not just accepting the way someone's perceived you and apologising for it, it's trying to persuade them as to why they're mistaken. So I think that's defensiveness as well. Right. And it's really important to recognise that rather than just again labelling someone else as defensive and letting ourselves off scot free. But what you're likely to see, if you have a more avoidant partner, their defensiveness is likely to take the form of more of a wall up, more of a quick smackdown response, kind of a batting back, a disengagement, an escalation.
[00:07:33]:
It is likely to be more of a fight response than your more fawning type response of going into that, like collapsing people pleasing thing of, I need to change your mind about me. The avoidant version of defensiveness is likely to be just trying to shut it down and block it out. And so it can look quite different, right. And that kind of defensiveness, because it's foreign to you as someone with more anxious attachment patterns. Foreign in the sense of that's not how you would approach it. It can feel like a bit of a slap in the face, or it can feel quite like an affront, something that you're unfamiliar with and uncomfortable with, and that can feel really threatening to your system. We know that anything that takes the shape of disconnection or pulling away is going to be really activating for you. And so when your partner becomes defensive, particularly if that's in response to you voicing a need or a concern, or expressing something that's not feeling great for you in the relationship, having them shut that down very quickly and disengage, can feel not only like you're a little bit shaken up by the rupture and the tension, but it can feel like a rejection of whatever you are bringing to them.
[00:08:46]:
And it's really easy to then fall into the story of you don't care about the hurt that I'm bringing to you, or the concern that I'm bringing to you, or whatever else it might be, because you're just totally unwilling to engage. And that obviously can exacerbate whatever pain we're in, because we then layer on all of these other stories of this person doesn't care about me at all because of the way that they're responding to me. If they cared about my emotions, if they cared about my well being, they would want to hear this. Now, as with all of these things, there's layers here and there's nuance and there's context. And on the one hand, I'd say that, yeah, of course, healthy, secure relationships. We want to create a culture and an environment in the relationship where concerns are welcomed and that each person is really genuinely invested in and wants to receive and hear whatever might be bothering the other as part of a commitment to the emotional hygiene of the relationship. And I think it's fair to say that most of us are not perfect in that respect. And for a lot of us, it is really hard to receive that.
[00:09:53]:
And defensiveness, I think the more we can really honestly see defensiveness as a fairly natural response to feeling attacked or caught off guard or villainized, being told that we're wrong or bad, when that just isn't our intention. Defensiveness really arises quite naturally. And so I think that it's useful in particular with avoidant attachment, because the expression of defensiveness can feel quite confronting, again, particularly if you're more anxious, and that's just not your style. It can be helpful in fostering that compassion and the humanness of it, really seeing into that humanness to understand what might be going on beneath the surface there. And for a lot of avoidant folks, they might not have really conscious awareness of this. It might not be a direct story that they're telling on the inside or their internal script. But what we know about avoidant attachment is that in the formation of that attachment style, those strategies, often what you'll see is a child who has had their emotional needs denied in some way. And because of that, they tend to channel their efforts into being successful, into achieving, into being good, being useful, being productive, all of these things that can get them the connection and the validation that they're yearning for without it being a direct emotional engagement in a way that, for whatever reason, has proven to be unsafe in their family system.
[00:11:30]:
And so because they've sort of switched that part of themselves off and really gone all in on being successful, being good, performing, achieving, being competent is a big one. Being, as I said, successful, this is really, really essential to their self image. And in order to feel like they're doing well and they're okay and they're a good person, they really need to feel like they're successful. And so oftentimes when we come into relationship and you've got an anxious partner who their blueprint tells them that it's really important to always be on the lookout for the bad things that might be happening or the ways in which our relationship is imperfect. And I'm going to bring all of those things to you because I really don't want anything bad to happen. And I feel like we have to get ahead of all of these potential leaky holes in the boat so that the ship doesn't sink, because that terrifies me. The idea of us not being together terrifies me. And so I think we should just talk about all the problems all the time to try and solve them.
[00:12:34]:
For someone who really prides themselves on feeling like they're doing a good job, that can feel like a constant bombardment of here are all the ways in which you are not measuring up, here are all the ways in which you are failing in being my partner. Here are all the ways in which I am disappointed in you, or you're falling short. And so defensiveness can arise in that context almost as a way to reconcile all of that and to make it not feel so big and not feel like such a personal failure. Because for someone to have to be on the receiving end of that when that's their story and that's the way they receive all of those things, is you are not good enough, you are failing. They kind of have to defend against that because it's just so painful, so deeply painful to their self image to receive it in that way. Even though that's not the way you intend it, as I'm sure it isn't for most people, it's not your intention to tell someone that they're a failure. But recognising that, that's often, whether it's conscious or not, how your partner is going to receive it, I think we can start to go, okay, maybe it's making a little more sense why my partner responds in that way to something like me expressing a need, me saying that I'd like more of this or less of that, or whatever it might be. And of course, there are better and worse ways to express needs that are more and less likely to elicit defensiveness.
[00:14:02]:
But even still, I think the simple fact of expressing a need sometimes, or expressing a concern or a boundary or a worry or an insecurity can be perceived as a personal attack on someone who has that sensitivity and that really strong commitment to wanting to be good. And I think the more we can feel into that and go, oh, this hurts you because you really, really want to feel like you're a great partner to me, then we can start to access some more of that compassion. And I think, as a side note, it's why it's so powerful to really reorient ourselves to the things that are going right in our relationship and really being very generous with our appreciation and vocalisation of those beings acknowledging what our partner is doing. Well, because that's the stuff that they really need to hear. Someone who really prides themselves on feeling like they're doing a good job, feeling like they're succeeding like that, you do appreciate them and you do see their efforts making sure that that really significantly outweighs, not even just that it's on a level playing field, that it really outweighs all of the things you're bringing to them that you're dissatisfied about. Right? Even though from your perspective, you're bringing those things with the good intention of wanting to make sure the relationship is really strong and healthy. So I think one other aspect of the defensiveness from the avoidant perspective can be when their partner is very emotional and because again, we know that for avoidant folks there can be almost an underdeveloped emotional landscape that, as I was explaining before in that avoidant attachment origin story, often that part of themselves gets siloed or kind of locked away because it wasn't nurtured in their family of origin and it wasn't really valued, it wasn't welcomed. And so they learn early on that that's not safe or that that's not going to get me what I need.
[00:16:02]:
And so there can be a real internal disconnect for avoidant folks where they're not really comfortable with their own big emotions. And so by extension, they don't really know what to do with someone else's big emotions. They can feel really ill equipped. Again, going back to the thing of I really like feeling competent and in control. If someone else has got really big emotions and I feel like it's my fault, or that they're really upset with me or disappointed, they're crying, they're overwhelmed, I really don't know how to handle that. And so defensiveness there, again, of course, if you're on the receiving end of it and you are really emotional and all you want is for someone to just see you and validate you and understand, having someone almost reject or dismiss you in that moment through their defensiveness can feel incredibly upsetting and like an abandonment in and of itself. Right. You're emotionally abandoning me in this moment when I so clearly need you to be there for me.
[00:16:55]:
But for the avoidant person, again, I know this is really hard to have compassion for if you've been on the other side of it and it's caused you a lot of hurt and pain, but if we can have that ability to just step outside of our experience and walk around the other side and look over the shoulder of our avoidant partner and understand that for them that is so frightening to be faced with someone who's got these really big feelings, emotions, very expressive in a way that might feel quite out of control, and they just feel totally ill equipped, like they do not know what to do with it. And you're expecting me to do something and I don't know what to say, I don't know what to do. And so from that place, it might be safer for me to become defensive, to push that back onto you, to push the responsibility back onto you, to sort of say, that's not my problem, what do you want me to do about that? Or to try and undermine the validity of the emotions that you're expressing by saying that. I didn't mean to make you upset. So why are you so upset? Something in that vein that shifts the burden back onto you. When it feels like it's going to eat them alive, it's going to smother them and they're just not comfortable with being in that seat because they don't really have experience with it. It's not part of their toolkit, what they've really learned to do. So all of that to say there's a few different limbs there of why defensiveness might arise for someone with more avoidant patterns and why that.
[00:18:29]:
Again, as much as it can feel hurtful or abrasive or upsetting or dismissive on the surface, that when we peel back a layer and we go, what's this really about for this person? If defensiveness is a protective strategy, what are they protecting? What's the tenderness here that this person that I love is feeling that is leading them to have to come out with such a self protective response and to be able to do that, that's like really, really advanced relationship skills, right? To feel into that in a moment when we're feeling hurt and to be able to hold both of those things as true, to see someone's humanity, even when we feel hurt by their behaviour. So recognising all of that, and I think once we can start to see that and feel that and kind of touch that, then we have a much greater likelihood of being able to build a bridge between us. And whether that's voicing it and naming it and saying it feels like maybe you're feeling attacked and I'm really sorry, it's not my intention to attack you, but I can see that that's how you're feeling and I'm really sorry. Speaking to the pain that you think they might be in, speaking to the fear or the sensitivity and owning that, even though that's not what you intended, that that might be the consequence and kind of opening up the conversation for them to share that there's much more engagement, right. Potential there. Because all of a sudden you're not making them the bad guy, you're not making them the villain in a really express way. Even if, as I said, that wasn't your initial intention anyway, obviously, when defensiveness is arising, irrespective of your intention, irrespective of your delivery, that's how it's landing, right? And that's not your fault. We need to kind of remove this whole paradigm of fault and villain, victim and blame, and just go, okay, this is what is right.
[00:20:36]:
Now you are feeling that even though that's the opposite of what I wanted, that is real and true. And so if I'm going to be a good partner in this moment, if I'm going to be open hearted, then my role is to validate that. Validate how divincies you're being and really recognise that. I guess the final thing that I'd add to all of that is if you're someone with more anxious patterns and you're listening to this and you were hoping that I was going to give you the perfect script to deliver the voicing of a need in a way where your partner was guaranteed to not get defensive. I can't give you that. Right. And I wouldn't want to give you that because I think a really big part of your work, as someone who's more anxious, I say your work, but it's also part of my ongoing work, is recognising that I can only control so much and that it's much less about delivering the perfect script in the perfect way with the perfect tone, so that my partner responds in the exact way that I want. That's really just me being controlling and manipulative.
[00:21:44]:
Right. It might be with the good intention of avoiding conflict or getting a need met, but it's kind of an overreach. Right. It's that over functioning. If I can just tiptoe around everything and do it in the perfect way, then I'll never have to rock the boat. So it's really an extension of my stuff, or your stuff to be doing it in that way. And so I really think the better approach is actually to just wade into the messiness of it and to be honest and open hearted and to share what you're needing to share and to be willing to be wrong or be willing to apologise, be willing to kind of see what happens in a conversation and be surprised, rather than needing to rehearse it a million times and putting this huge amount of pressure on yourself to curate the moment so that it plays out the way that you want, and then blaming yourself if it doesn't. Or blaming them because they're so unreasonable because you said it in the perfect way and they still got defend right.
[00:22:44]:
All of that is really. Even though, as I said, it's coming from a good place. I'm sure that is actually keeping you entrenched in the same patterns, because it's an extension of that part of you that just wants to eliminate risk and control everything rather than actually be vulnerable. So trust that with a level of open heartedness with a level of genuine curiosity. So, like, I'm showing up to this moment with totally fresh eyes and no expectations and I'm just going to see what happens and see what's here and ask questions and listen to the answers, right? I'm not going to coach you. I'm not going to try and steer you one way or the other. I just want to be in this moment, present with you and see what happens, see what might be different from that place. Because, as you will have heard me speak about before, so much of what we transmit to each other in particularly intense moments when our nervous system is really on high alert.
[00:23:48]:
So much of it is nonverbal and so much of it is way beyond anything we could ever write down in a neat script. So I think that recognising that so much of our communication is from the heart and from the body rather than the words that we say, and feeling into our responsibility there and recognising how powerful it is when we start to change the way that we show up in that respect and just trusting that we can figure it out. And that even though the person that we're in a relationship with might not always respond the way we want, that every response is based in some sort of need or some sort of pain or some sort of fear. And that if we really want to build healthy relationships that are based on deep compassion and security and care, that that's part of our responsibility, is to seek to understand our partner's pain and fear and sensitivities, rather than just trying to make them suppress that or convince them why they don't need to feel that way. Because it's uncomfortable for us. So I hope that that's given you some insights, something to think about, something to reflect upon and maybe some takeaways, if this is a dynamic that exists in your relationship and something that you can take into the next time you encounter this, because you will, it's still something that I encounter all the time in my relationship, in myself, in my partner. So it's not one of those things that we're just going to eradicate because it's a human thing, right? Defensiveness is a very, very natural response and it's more about understanding the why of it rather than needing to eradicate it or make it stop or make it go away. I think we just have to change how we relate to these things and how we respond to them.
[00:25:45]:
Because that's really where our growth lies and that's where we can make a lot of progress in our connection with each other. As always, I'm so grateful for all of you tuning in. For anyone who leaves reviews and ratings, I read every single one of them, and I'm so appreciative always for your beautiful words. So thank you and I look forward to seeing you again next week. Thanks, guys.
[00:26:08]:
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com and if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here, and I hope to see you again soon.
Keywords from Podcast Episode
attachment, relationships, avoidant partners, defensiveness, anxious leaning, conflict, communication, connection, understanding, compassion, self-worth, self-love, emotional needs, emotional hygiene, secure relationships, emotional awareness, emotional response, emotional landscape, communication skills, emotional regulation, vulnerability, compassion, relationship dynamics, nonverbal communication, insecurity, emotional wellbeing, sensitivity, emotional support, anxiety, self-reflection.