"How should I bring up moving in together with my avoidant partner?"
In today's Q&A episode, I'm answering the question of how to bring up wanting to move in together with an avoidant partner. This episode will be super helpful for anyone in this same situation, or who is otherwise wanting to have a "what are we?" type chat with their avoidant partner.
In today's Q&A episode, I'm answering the question of how to bring up wanting to move in together with an avoidant partner.
This episode will be super helpful for anyone in this same situation, or who is otherwise wanting to have a "what are we?" type chat with their avoidant partner.
WHAT WE COVER:
mindset shifts for the anxious partner in approaching these conversations
how to own your desires and feel comfortable voicing them
how best to approach these conversations with an avoidant partner
what to do if you're not on the same page
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my signature 8-week course Healing Anxious Attachment
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:00.33 → 0:00:40.17
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship Coach Stephanie Rigg, and I'm really glad you're here. You hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today's episode is a Q&A episode and I'm answering the question, how to discuss moving in together with an avoidant partner.
0:00:40.35 → 0:01:22.01
So this is a question that I got via my Instagram stories last week, and I think it's going to be a really useful discussion, not only for people who are in that specific situation. There may be some listening, but it's going to illustrate a broader technique or approach that you can take in. Broaching those maybe sensitive discussions, maybe things that feel intimidating, that feel anxiety inducing. If you're wanting to discuss taking next steps in a relationship, having any sort of where is this going, what are we? Conversation with a partner who does lean towards avoidant attachment and so might have some resistance to those conversations.
0:01:22.11 → 0:02:25.73
So that's what we're going to be talking about today. I'm going to offer you some reframes on how to do the work behind the scenes for yourself going into that, so that you're not in this really constricted state of anxiety and worry and overthinking and trying to be perfect in the way that you discuss that, because I think that's the tendency. And I'll also give you some really practical tools and strategies in terms of the how to of having that conversation, of starting it, of actually going about navigating those discussions, depending on where it goes, so depending on their response, how you can respond to that, to really optimise your chances of not necessarily getting an outcome. I'm not going to tell you strategically how to broach that conversation in a way that's going to guarantee that you're going to move in together. I think that's unrealistic and unhelpful advice, but rather that you can go into it feeling self assured, feeling confident and trusting that no matter what happens, you'll be able to navigate it together and that ultimately you will have your own back and you will be okay.
0:02:25.82 → 0:02:49.43
So that's what we're talking about today. Before I dive into that, a couple of quick announcements. Today is the last episode before doors open to healing anxious attachment on Tuesday. Next week my time, so that'll be late Monday. If you're in the Northern Hemisphere, as many of you are, unless you are brand new here, I'm sure you've heard me harping on about healing anxious attachment.
0:02:49.53 → 0:03:48.46
It is my signature course. It's an eight week programme, although you do get lifetime access to all of the modules. And it really does distil down everything that I know, both from personal experience and from working with over 700 people in this specific programme, and more than double that outside of the programme and it really brings together all of the components that you need. The knowledge, the insight, the self awareness, the mindset shifts, the practical tools, the nervous system regulation, all of those things come together to give you a really comprehensive programme that is going to help you repate, rebuild and relearn how to experience relationships in a safe way. So if you're someone who struggles with anxious attachment and you are exhausted and overwhelmed and feeling like you've tried everything, then I really, really encourage you to join the Waitlist in the Show notes that will allow you to access discounted pricing and first access when doors open next week.
0:03:48.48 → 0:04:20.60
And that is exclusive to the people on the waitlist. So make sure that you do jump on the waitlist if you're wanting to join the course or even just give yourself the option to join the course and save $100. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is I've been very interested in attachment theory and I've toyed or halfheartedly tried to understand and apply it to my own relationship. I came across Stephanie's podcast during my research and it has brought to life my understanding of attachment theory and my own attachment style, as well as my partner's. Her advice and tips in the podcast are so invaluable and helpful.
0:04:20.66 → 0:04:36.61
She is that wise and realistic voice you need to hear to start healing. I look forward to her episodes every week to deepen that understanding and to continue my journey. I highly, highly recommend this podcast and all of Stephanie's resources. Thank you so much for that beautiful review. I really appreciate it.
0:04:36.68 → 0:05:24.46
If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierig.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my master classes as a way to say thank you. Okay, so let's dive into this conversation around how would I approach raising the discussion of moving in together with my partner who is avoidant? So I think the starting point, as I foreshadowed in the introduction to this episode, I think some of this is our work. If you're more anxious leaning and you're in this position or a similar situation whereby you want to raise one of those relationship progression conversations or clarifying what the relationship is and where it's going, there's definitely going to be some preparatory work on your part, because that's going to bring up a lot of stuff in you. A lot of fear, a lot of anxiety.
0:05:24.60 → 0:06:05.74
I think what can happen is we can be so convinced of how they're going to respond to something, what they're going to think and feel, that we have this anticipatory anxiety. We think we know how it's going to go before we've even taken the tiniest little step towards it. And so we're so braced for that outcome that our system is already gearing up to self protect in whatever way it knows how. So whether that's by being critical or by fawning or collapsing or dismissing ourselves or suppressing what it is we really want and feel. We have all of these strategies in our toolbox, and we're already so primed to have to lean on them.
0:06:05.79 → 0:06:28.86
And those strategies, while they can help us and they have helped us in the past, oftentimes when we zoom out a bit, we can see how they're blocking us from getting what we want. And that is particularly true in these kinds of vulnerable conversations. So I think a really important first step is to go, okay, here's my desire. I want to move in with my partner. Okay?
0:06:28.98 → 0:06:56.71
I need to not make myself wrong for that. I need to not cloak that in shame or oh, I'm being too needy, I'm being too clingy, I'm being too whatever. That's a perfectly legitimate thing to desire in your relationship. That doesn't mean that your partner is necessarily going to be on the same page as you and be ready to move at the same pace. But I think an important prerequisite to having this conversation is really being okay with the fact that that's your desire.
0:06:56.81 → 0:07:44.97
Because when you're insecure about the desire, then again, you're going to be really protective of it, and you're probably going to try and make them wrong for being different to you to the extent that they're not on the same page. So the more you can just stand firm and grounded and calm in the fact that you want to move in with your partner, which is a beautiful thing, then I think that that kind of softens your energy going into the conversation. At the same time, I think it is really important to understand that your partner may not be on the same page as you. And that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't love you, they're not committed to you, they don't care about you, that you love them more than they love you. I think we just need to really watch the meaning making processes that our brain will jump to so quickly in this kind of conversation.
0:07:45.02 → 0:08:16.17
Right? Because it's natural to be sensitive to rejection and to feel hurt if we're wanting to move forward and someone else isn't meeting us in that desire. But I think the more that we make that mean something about the relationship at a fundamental level, then the more likely we are to again come out with these protective strategies that might block us from having a productive conversation. So I think that something helpful to do is clarify for yourself, why is this important to me? Why do I want to move in together with my partner?
0:08:16.51 → 0:08:36.92
How important is it to me? What would that mean for us? What would be different if we live together? How would that impact me and our relationship? Just getting a little bit more clarity for yourself around the significance of this thing and why that is something that you desire so that you're better able to explain that to your partner.
0:08:37.03 → 0:09:23.77
Again, open, vulnerable, not carrying a lot of emotional density and judgement and control, just sharing. I would really love this because of X-Y-Z and having that conversation. I think another really important tip is while you should clarify your thinking ahead of the conversation because I think it's really good to know broadly what you want to say and why it's important to you. Try not to be too rigid around scripting the perfect Oscar award winning speech and needing to deliver it in the perfect way so that you get the desired outcome. I get questions like this from anxious people all the time and it's how should I say this thing?
0:09:23.81 → 0:10:36.40
And I think people do kind of want a script. And while I understand that that can be helpful in feeling a little more prepared going into these conversations where otherwise you can spin out and get overwhelmed, I think the more we script it for ourselves and put that pressure on ourselves to almost perform perfectly, then not only do we rob ourselves of the opportunity to be open and curious and genuinely listen, rather than being really narrow in our expectation and our desire for where the conversation goes, we also then are creating the illusion that we're in control of where the conversation goes. And what that does is mean that if they don't respond the way we want, it's our fault because we didn't deliver it properly, because we didn't do our part properly. Whereas if you can go into it with the mindset of all I can do is honestly and vulnerably, share where I'm at and what I want, and then I can listen, and then I can respond and continue to let that unfold as it will, then it's much less on your shoulders to manage where the conversation goes and how it
0:10:36.42 → 0:10:44.31
goes. And I think again as more anxious leaning people, your tendency is going to be to want to take responsibility, to want to control.
0:10:44.51 → 0:11:27.94
And while that is a way that we try and keep ourselves safe again, it not only blocks us from getting what we want a lot of the time, but it then creates a lot of shame and inadequacy in the system. So with those mindset pieces out of the way and just to recap, those were things like get really clear about your desires, own those desires, feel comfortable with those desires and certainly don't go into it with any sense of shame or self judgement around the desires. Watch the meaning making. So don't preemptively go oh, if they say no, it's because they don't love me, it's because they don't care, it's because they're not committed to me. And also try not to be too perfectionistic and narrow minded about how the conversation has to go.
0:11:27.99 → 0:11:51.95
Try and be quite open. I want to now turn to giving you some specific tips strategies on how to actually go to that conversation. So I recorded an episode a couple of weeks ago around how to have hard conversations with an avoidant partner. So that's definitely a good one to revisit if you are in this situation. And those tips and tools will be really helpful here as well.
0:11:52.10 → 0:12:16.27
But the kinds of things you're going to be looking for be selective in your timing for this. Right. Again, find the middle ground. We don't want to be overly tiptoeing or walking on eggshells or feeling like we've got to find the perfect moment. But if you're really stressed and heightened, that's not a good time because your nervous system is going to be sending so much information to their nervous system that you're already going to be in this threatened state.
0:12:16.36 → 0:12:36.58
Both of you are going to be dysregulated going into that conversation and that is not what we want. So choose your moment, wait till you're grounded and don't ambush them with the conversation. Right. Particularly for an avoidant partner. They're not going to want anything where they feel suffocated or overwhelmed or backed into a corner.
0:12:36.69 → 0:13:20.02
So really asking for permission, hey, there's something I'd like to chat to you about. When would be a good time and if that's in a week or three, let it be when it will be. Obviously again with accountability and making sure you do actually get to have the conversation, but not in a way that feels like their backs up against the wall because that's going to put them on the defensive straight out of the caden. That is obviously not conducive to the kind of conversation we want to have here. I think the other thing is try and really be curious and open minded into what their position is rather than, as I said, attacking them or trying to control or manipulate them to the extent that they're not on the same page as you.
0:13:20.12 → 0:14:00.03
Try and actually hear what they're saying. Try and understand what their concerns are or their reservations are and be open to rather than just doubling down on your position and being forceful with that. Is there some middle ground that isn't just my way or your way, figuring out what that might look like and putting it to them, not just putting it on yourself to come up with the solution? Really collaboratively going, okay, what might this look like for us? Now, to give you a specific kind of example of how this might go, Because I think a lot of the time what will happen is anxious person wants to move in together, suggests that to avoidant partner.
0:14:00.08 → 0:14:53.22
Avoidant partner says, I don't think we're there yet because they might have reservations around, something like that because that's going to be a big deal for most avoidant people to give up their space, their independence, their autonomy, and to really merge with someone in quite a literal sense that's going to feel really edgy for them. So it will take them longer in most cases than it will take an anxious person to be ready for that. If that happens and they say, I don't think we're there yet, rather than being hurt and lashing out, could you potentially have sympathy for that and go, okay, fair enough. Can we revisit this in three months time or six months time? And if they say, oh, I don't really want to put a deadline on it, let's just see how we go, that's the point at which you can go, I hear you, and I understand that you don't want to feel controlled or pressured.
0:14:53.36 → 0:15:38.05
At the same time, it's really hard for me to just feel kind of open ended and like, I don't know where this is going. It doesn't have to be a decision we make right now, but it would be really helpful for me if we had some sort of structure around when we're going to revisit the conversation so it doesn't feel like this thing looming over us that I don't have any visibility over. So really asserting that need and going, I understand it doesn't have to be today and it doesn't have to be tomorrow, but it would be really supportive for me if we could agree to revisit this conversation in whatever period of time makes sense. So that is how you set a boundary, right? Again, I think so many people go, oh no, a boundary means I have to declare an ultimatum and say it's now or never, and do some big dramatic storm out.
0:15:38.17 → 0:16:11.51
No, the boundary can just be going, okay, I hear you, but here's my needs, so how can we meet in the middle? That is how you build healthy relationships based on trust and mutual respect. So I hope that that has been helpful in giving you not only the mindset stuff, but also some more practical tools and strategies. If you found this helpful again, I really do encourage you to sign up for Healing Anxious Attachment when it opens next week. Not only do you get eight modules of video lessons, workbooks, meditations from me, but we also have two live Q&A calls.
0:16:11.53 → 0:16:44.90
So you can come on live with me and bring questions like this or anything else that you're struggling with and get live coaching from me. So if that's something that appeals to you and you are looking to make some changes and get some support, I really, really do encourage you to join the waitlist and sign up to your Healing Anxious Attachment next week when doors open. And if you've enjoyed this episode, as always, super grateful if you can, leave a five star rating. If you're listening on Spotify, leave a review. If you're listening on Apple podcasts, it really does help so much, and I'm so grateful to all of you for your ongoing support of the podcast.
0:16:45.09 → 0:17:09.12
Thanks so much for joining me, everybody, and I look forward to seeing you next week. Take care. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com. And if you're enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating.
0:17:09.18 --> 0:17:13.88
It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
"What's the difference between privacy and secrecy in relationships?"
In today's episode, we're talking about the difference between privacy and secrecy. Depending on where you sit on the attachment spectrum, you may have a complicated relationship with privacy - both your own and others'. We'll discuss where the line is between privacy and secrecy, and what to do if you find other people's privacy uncomfortable or triggering.
In today's episode, we're talking about the difference between privacy and secrecy.
Depending on where you sit on the attachment spectrum, you may have a complicated relationship with privacy - both your own and others'. We'll discuss where the line is between privacy and secrecy, and what to do if you find other people's privacy uncomfortable or triggering.
WHAT WE COVER:
what's the difference between privacy and secrecy?
anxious attachment and the need for information to eliminate uncertainty
the trust wound
avoidant attachment and protectiveness around privacy
important caveats where there has been a known breach of trust
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my signature 8-week course Healing Anxious Attachment
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:00.90 → 0:00:37.59
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship coach Stephanie Rigg, and I'm really glad you're here. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. In today's episode, I'm going to be answering the question of when does privacy become secrecy?
0:00:38.03 → 0:01:24.42
Where is the line between privacy and secrecy? How can we navigate this? And how can we probably become more comfortable with reasonable levels of privacy without experiencing privacy as secrecy? And I'm really talking to my anxiously attached listeners there because without giving too much away of what we're going to talk about today, I'm sure you can relate to feeling really uncomfortable with privacy and probably feeling like privacy is secrecy. So we're going to be talking about that, what the difference is between the two, how you can become more trusting of reasonable boundaries around privacy, and also some caveats to privacy versus secrecy when there has been a breach of trust.
0:01:24.55 → 0:01:51.40
So that's what we're going to be talking about today. Before we dive into that, a couple of quick announcements. The first being just a reminder again, that my signature course, Healing Anxious Attachment, is opening up for early bird enrollment in about ten days for those on the waitlist. So if you're interested, definitely join the waitlist. That will ensure that you get notified when doors open and will also allow you to access the early bird price, which is exclusive to those on the waitlist.
0:01:51.46 → 0:02:26.66
So the link to that is in the show notes, if you're interested, and I definitely encourage you to cheque it out. The second quick announcement is just to share the featured review, which is I discovered the On Attachment podcast a few weeks ago and I've been listening to it at every opportunity since. Stephanie's helped me understand why it feels like I spin out and why my self esteem plummets at certain times in my life and recognising these triggers has already helped me to self soothe and make choices to keep myself on track. The podcast has brought me closer to my partner and also, strangely, to my parents. It's allowed my parents and I to understand our dynamic as a family and to communicate and support one another better.
0:02:26.76 → 0:02:44.48
It's also helping my parents navigate their anxious avoidance cycle. I'm realising that my anxious attachment style has ruled my life and my emotions in so many ways since I was a kid. And I'm so looking forward to joining the next Healing Anxious Attachment course this month. Thank you so much, Stephanie. Thank you so much for that beautiful review.
0:02:44.61 → 0:03:02.74
That is so lovely to hear that not only you're having those experiences of growth and transformation, but that it's rippling out to the relationships in your life and your family and your parents. That's really, really amazing. And humbling. So thank you for sharing that. It's put a big smile on my face.
0:03:02.79 → 0:03:54.85
If that was your review, please send an email to podcast@stephanierigg.com and my team will set you up with free access to one of my master classes, which will be a nice supplement to the healing anxious attachment course if you do end up joining this month. Okay, so with that out of the way, let's dive into this conversation about privacy and secrecy. So as a starting point, I think we need to distinguish between what privacy is and what secrecy is. And while the specific content of privacy versus secrecy is likely to be contextually specific, I think it's useful to define them by reference to the energy or the intention behind it. And in my mind, privacy is my partner doesn't need to know about this, but they could, and it wouldn't be a problem, whereas secrecy is.
0:03:54.89 → 0:04:36.84
I have to make sure they don't find out about this, because if they did, it would be a problem. Okay, so secrecy has this quality of concealment. I have done something that is in breach of some boundary or agreement which is overt or implied in our relationship. I've done something in breach of that, and I've got to go about making sure my partner doesn't find out because there would be adverse consequences for our relationship if they were to find out. Whereas privacy is just I don't need to share every single thought, feeling, movement, everything I do in a day, everything I think and feel, I don't need to share that with my partner, and I don't need them to share that with me.
0:04:37.29 → 0:04:56.93
So that's the starting point, right? And it's really important to understand that privacy is a good thing. Privacy is important. Privacy is a feature or a byproduct of having healthy boundaries in a relationship. Where this gets really tricky is when we overlay attachment dynamics onto it, which is often the case, right?
0:04:57.02 → 0:06:00.17
We can have the base conversation and then we have the attachment overlay where it gets a little bit more complicated and charged. So on the anxious side, in my experience, privacy feels like secrecy because we have oftentimes a trust wound and we have this anxiety and we have this real struggle around uncertainty. And so our anxiety will tell us that the antidote to uncertainty is information, and gathering as much information as possible is going to alleviate the anxiety, and that's how we're going to get to safety. Unfortunately, what that means is someone else's reasonable privacy feels threatening to us, and that can lead us to be invasive and intrusive and do things like snoop or pry or ask probing questions of someone. And if you're in a relationship with someone who leans more avoidant, they're likely to have a really protective response to that.
0:06:00.21 → 0:06:51.80
Because if we walk around to the other side of the street and we look at how avoidant leaning people relate to privacy and secrecy. We know that for avoidant people a sense of self and clear autonomy and independence and not feeling controlled, that's really important to them, feeling safe in a relationship. So they're likely to lean heavily on privacy as their right, as something that they're entitled to, and they're likely to be very protective of that. So to the extent that their partner, who might be more anxious leaning, starts to push the boundaries of that because they're feeling anxious and their partner's privacy feels threatening to them, they're going to double down on that privacy. And really push them away, which is going to send alarm bells ringing for the anxious person going, oh, no, they're really hiding something because they're not just opening the kimono, so to speak.
0:06:51.98 → 0:07:37.05
So what do we do with that? I think that this is a much bigger conversation than I can get into in a short Q and A episode. But I think the essence of this one is if you are more anxious leaning and you notice that privacy is triggering for you, someone else having privacy, that's a good sign that you need to work on your own boundaries. Because I suppose the flip side of this is you're likely to not protect your own privacy very much. And I think that a lot of anxious people tend to be like an extreme open book, tend to over disclose, tend to offer everything up very early in a relationship because there's this story that to tell someone everything, that's how we build connection, right?
0:07:37.25 → 0:08:07.45
That if I just kind of disclose everything and tell you all of my secrets or whatever, if I just share everything with you, that's how I build connection with you. And so privacy is not something that you're likely to value so much for yourself. Which again, reinforces the fact that someone else's valuing of their privacy is offensive, is threatening, is hurtful, is them pushing you away, is them not wanting to connect with you. Okay? But we really need to recognise here what of that is our stuff.
0:08:07.64 → 0:08:55.12
And I'd say in that circumstance, when it is just healthy levels of privacy, there's no reason to be suspicious of anything of concern. I think that's our responsibility to get curious about, to increase our tolerance for that. And that's really our work around uncertainty and the ways that we try to manage uncertainty through control. Okay, so if you're more anxious leaning and you are nodding in self recognition here, that's your work, right, is to do the work around what's my relationship to uncertainty and control and vulnerability? Because I think a lot of the time, and this is an important point, we seek transparency, all the information, as a substitute for trust, right?
0:08:55.14 → 0:09:24.22
We tell ourselves that if we know everything, then we'll be able to decide whether or not to trust. And that really defeats the purpose of trust. It undermines the whole premise of trust, which involves an element of the unknown. It involves uncertainty, it involves vulnerability. So if the only reason you trust someone is because you are satisfied that you have gathered all the information that there is to know and there's nothing to lead you to believe that you shouldn't trust them, that's actually kind of missing the point.
0:09:24.27 → 0:09:46.72
That's not really trust, that's just control. And it's very flimsy because it commits you to having to keep gathering all of the information all the time in order to keep assessing whether or not you can trust. Okay? So that is your growth edge. If you're someone who does lean, more anxious or otherwise, but you know that you struggle with other people's privacy, that is really where your work is.
0:09:46.90 → 0:10:26.13
Now, the caveat to all of this is where there has been a known breach of trust in a relationship, an obvious example being infidelity in those circumstances, it may be reasonable to forego a level of privacy for a period of time while trust is rebuilt. So, for example, if your partner was caught doing something on their phone sexting with someone or was still on dating apps or something like that, and that was a breach of trust in your relationship? That was a breach? Of the boundaries of your relationship, then for a period of time after that, it may be reasonable for you to agree that they don't get privacy around their phone. Right?
0:10:26.17 → 0:11:33.46
That they have to sacrifice that and commit to a level of transparency, meaning actually volunteering information that would be more than regular levels of privacy would require in order to rebuild trust. And the onus really needs to be on them, on the person who has betrayed trust to give up those privileges for a period of time in order to go above and beyond to rebuild the trust. So I think that that's an important qualifier to this conversation around privacy. Trust and secrecy is that the starting point should be privacy, but where you've been given a valid reason to not trust in the safety of privacy, then that might be a conversation to be had and something to negotiate. And I really encourage you to probably seek out the support of a couple's therapist or someone who can be a neutral third party to help you manage that, because it can get really charged and highly emotional and can be really challenging to navigate on your own.
0:11:33.56 → 0:12:12.59
So I hope that that's been helpful for you in answering this question of what's the difference between privacy and secrecy? Where's the line between them and what's reasonable, what's healthy, what's unhealthy? And if you recognise that in yourself that healthy privacy feels unsafe for you, then that's a really good sign that there's some work to be done around the trust wound and your relationship to uncertainty and control. And that's very much fertile ground for self exploration. If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a quick review if you're listening on Apple podcasts or a five star rating.
0:12:12.64 → 0:12:34.09
If you're listening on Spotify, it really does help so much. Otherwise, I will see you again next week. Thanks so much for joining me guys. Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram, @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com.
0:12:34.21 → 0:12:43.34
And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.